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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Jews convert to Christianity.

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  #1  
Old 01-03-2011, 09:15 PM
Loretohouse's Avatar
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Default Jews convert to Christianity.

The Catholic Church teaching on the "End Times" has one element that must occur before the end, and that is the conversion of all Jews to Christianity. I want to know what your respective denominations say about this aspect of prophecy.

Please do not respond with a bazooka of scripture quotes or comments from contemporary pastors or authors. What I am seeking is a statement from the official teaching of denominations. I am not interested in your personal interpretation but rather that of your Church authority.

I find the conversion of the Jews to be a stunning event and I wonder how that could come to pass. Remember, I only have a $5.00 brain amongst a lot of people who know how to use $50.00 words.


The Catechism provides us with a general order of events at the End [CCC 673-677]. Chronologically they are,

1. the full number of the Gentiles come into the Church

2. the "full inclusion of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles" (#2 will follow quickly on, in the wake of, #1)

3. a final trial of the Church "in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth." The supreme deception is that of the Antichrist.

4. Christ's victory over this final unleashing of evil through a cosmic upheaval of this passing world and the Last Judgment.




Please put on your thinking caps and give me some good answers.
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2011, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

I do not belong to a denomination per se, so what I post here is simply what I believe or have heard. It is, in other words, exactly what Catholics will frequently call my own interpretation. I do not believe it all to be simply my interpretation, but that is another subject already discussed at length in other places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
The Catholic Church teaching on the "End Times" has one element that must occur before the end, and that is the conversion of all Jews to Christianity. I want to know what your respective denominations say about this aspect of prophecy.

Please do not respond with a bazooka of scripture quotes or comments from contemporary pastors or authors. What I am seeking is a statement from the official teaching of denominations. I am not interested in your personal interpretation but rather that of your Church authority.
I believe that my authority is Jesus as per God. If I fail to always acknowledge my authority, it is likely, at least, in part to be where also the leaderships of all the Christian groups known to me also fail. Where is that?

Quote:
Loretohouse: I find the conversion of the Jews to be a stunning event and I wonder how that could come to pass. Remember, I only have a $5.00 brain amongst a lot of people who know how to use $50.00 words.

The Catechism provides us with a general order of events at the End [CCC 673-677]. Chronologically they are,

1. the full number of the Gentiles come into the Church
When this done, who among them will remain a "gentile"[ a heathen]?

Quote:
Loretohouse: 2. the "full inclusion of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles" (#2 will follow quickly on, in the wake of, #1)
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:" Rom 11:26

Yes, all of Israel, but then...

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" Rom 9:6

Quote:
Loretohouse: 3. a final trial of the Church "in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth." The supreme deception is that of the Antichrist.
The means to avoid this deception has been provided, but it is not to be found simply by membership in any organized church group bearing the label "Christian". Joining a physical church group will, in and of itself, save no one.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matt 7:21

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Loretohouse: 4. Christ's victory over this final unleashing of evil through a cosmic upheaval of this passing world and the Last Judgment.
If we are in Him and He is in us as he prayed in John 17, then His victory is also our victory. So then what is our part, wchi will result in us being in Him and Him being in us?
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
I am not interested in your personal interpretation but rather that of your Church authority


The Catechism provides us with a general order of events at the End [CCC 673-677]. Chronologically they are,

1. the full number of the Gentiles come into the Church

2. the "full inclusion of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles" (#2 will follow quickly on, in the wake of, #1)

3. a final trial of the Church "in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth." The supreme deception is that of the Antichrist.

4. Christ's victory over this final unleashing of evil through a cosmic upheaval of this passing world and the Last Judgment.
I am not aware of a set teaching concerning the topic you mention here in my denomination. I do know that we do not believe in what is termed 'replacement theology'. God made promises and also gave prophecy that concerns Israel, the Jewish people (nation), and them exclusively. So, that is another teaching we may not agree entirely on.

The other point is what you term 'authority'. Of course you know that authority in our church is not based on 'personal opinion', and that will include "everybody". We are all accountable to the Canon of the Biblical text, as that is what we measure by.

But yes, it is accepted, that Israel as a nation, will in the end time accept and recognize Jesus Christ as Messiah. I hope that is enough, because we would not agree on all the events that will lead up to that.

I have a question though. I have been reading a lot of threads and comments, and my understanding is that the RC Church has only a few "absolutes", that must be adhered to, as far as interpreting scripture. Is this one of those that can be interpreted differently among RC?

I hope these are not offensive statements, I did the best I could.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
[size="4"][font="Comic Sans MS"][color="DarkSlateGray"]The Catholic Church teaching on the "End Times" has one element that must occur before the end, and that is the conversion of all Jews to Christianity.
Please show me where the Catholic Church has ever made the pronouncement that in the last days "all" Jews would convert to the true faith?
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by cate View Post
Please show me where the Catholic Church has ever made the pronouncement that in the last days "all" Jews would convert to the true faith?
CCC 673-677
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by billyb View Post
I am not aware of a set teaching concerning the topic you mention here in my denomination. I do know that we do not believe in what is termed 'replacement theology'. God made promises and also gave prophecy that concerns Israel, the Jewish people (nation), and them exclusively. So, that is another teaching we may not agree entirely on.

The other point is what you term 'authority'. Of course you know that authority in our church is not based on 'personal opinion', and that will include "everybody". We are all accountable to the Canon of the Biblical text, as that is what we measure by.

But yes, it is accepted, that Israel as a nation, will in the end time accept and recognize Jesus Christ as Messiah. I hope that is enough, because we would not agree on all the events that will lead up to that.

I have a question though. I have been reading a lot of threads and comments, and my understanding is that the RC Church has only a few "absolutes", that must be adhered to, as far as interpreting scripture. Is this one of those that can be interpreted differently among RC?

I hope these are not offensive statements, I did the best I could.
Thank you for the response.

What I find interesting is that the Catholic Church says the Jews will be converted before the great "apostacy and antiChrist". It appears that if we see signs of Israel converting we are close to the end? or possibly the period after their conversion may be a longer period of tribulation. I am also mindful that Jesus said we will not know the time or day.

I do not recall hearing anything about this in non Catholic writings or pastors on TV. Would this scenario be problematic for many non Catholics?
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

Please list the precise quote as well as the specific catechism you are referring to. My position is that the Catholic Church has never taught that all Jews will convert to Christianity (Catholicism) in the last days. An interesting note: anti-pope Benedict XVI praises the Jewish religion and says he has great respect for it - a religion which blasphemes God and rejects Jesus Christ. He also believes that it is possible for Jews and peoples of non-Catholic religions to be saved. This of course is heresy and has been condemned by all the popes.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
Thank you for the response.

What I find interesting is that the Catholic Church says the Jews will be converted before the great "apostacy and antiChrist". It appears that if we see signs of Israel converting we are close to the end? or possibly the period after their conversion may be a longer period of tribulation. I am also mindful that Jesus said we will not know the time or day.

I do not recall hearing anything about this in non Catholic writings or pastors on TV. Would this scenario be problematic for many non Catholics?
I personally don't see why it should. There are pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib, and I suppose others.

Who is the pope that 'cate' refers to?

As far as the catechism you refer to, does that mean all Catholics must accept that? And, Thank You.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

I was referring to Anti-pope Benedict XVI. The Catholic Church teaches that all heretics places themselves ipso facto outside the Church - this is a dogma of the Church.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
Thank you for the response.

What I find interesting is that the Catholic Church says the Jews will be converted before the great "apostacy and antiChrist". It appears that if we see signs of Israel converting we are close to the end? or possibly the period after their conversion may be a longer period of tribulation. I am also mindful that Jesus said we will not know the time or day.

I do not recall hearing anything about this in non Catholic writings or pastors on TV. Would this scenario be problematic for many non Catholics?
Brother Loretohouse. Non Catholic people are all over the map on this one. Many would not take that view to be problematic. Others have problems with any view that is not what they hold to be true. Our Church a non-denomo, charismatic fellowship takes hardly no stand on how this all pands out. I'm sure that we have people from many different views. You might say, that we just have a unity in what we agree on, & consider these things not worth fighting about. In his Love Mark!
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