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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Jews convert to Christianity.

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  #21  
Old 01-04-2011, 11:14 PM
ElpidioLGagolinan's Avatar
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
The Catholic Church teaching on the "End Times" has one element that must occur before the end, and that is the conversion of all Jews to Christianity. I want to know what your respective denominations say about this aspect of prophecy.

Please do not respond with a bazooka of scripture quotes or comments from contemporary pastors or authors. What I am seeking is a statement from the official teaching of denominations. I am not interested in your personal interpretation but rather that of your Church authority.

I find the conversion of the Jews to be a stunning event and I wonder how that could come to pass. Remember, I only have a $5.00 brain amongst a lot of people who know how to use $50.00 words.


The Catechism provides us with a general order of events at the End [CCC 673-677]. Chronologically they are,

1. the full number of the Gentiles come into the Church

2. the "full inclusion of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles" (#2 will follow quickly on, in the wake of, #1)

3. a final trial of the Church "in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth." The supreme deception is that of the Antichrist.

4. Christ's victory over this final unleashing of evil through a cosmic upheaval of this passing world and the Last Judgment.




Please put on your thinking caps and give me some good answers.
Revelation Chapter 7.

ped
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2011, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
[size="4"][font="Comic Sans MS"][color="DarkSlateGray"]The Catholic Church teaching on the "End Times" has one element that must occur before the end, and that is the conversion of all Jews to Christianity.


I find the conversion of the Jews to be a stunning event and I wonder how that could come to pass. Remember, I only have a $5.00 brain amongst a lot of people who know how to use $50.00 words.


The Catechism provides us with a general order of events at the End [CCC 673-677]. Chronologically they are,

1. the full number of the Gentiles come into the Church

2. the "full inclusion of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles" (#2 will follow quickly on, in the wake of, #1)
Is "all Jews" the same as saying the "full inclusion of the Jews?"
It is highly unlikely you will have "all Jews" converting.
It would seem to me as being the full amount.
I would present this like 100 people at a bus stop. The bus comes along and only has enough for 60 seated and 11 standing. The full inclusion for the bus would be 71 passengers.

It seems these Jews may be the types who still adhere to the law of
Leviticus 19 27 “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
Probably all the laws given to Moses outlined in Leviticus and have Christ as their Lord.
Double disciplines it would seem.
I believe they would be present in all generations since Christ.
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  #23  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:07 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by cate View Post
Please list the precise quote as well as the specific catechism you are referring to. My position is that the Catholic Church has never taught that all Jews will convert to Christianity (Catholicism) in the last days. An interesting note: anti-pope Benedict XVI praises the Jewish religion and says he has great respect for it - a religion which blasphemes God and rejects Jesus Christ. He also believes that it is possible for Jews and peoples of non-Catholic religions to be saved. This of course is heresy and has been condemned by all the popes.
They may never have made a formal "pronouncement" on it; but the idea has been around for centuries.

What do you think the forcible conversions were about? Just to be mean? No, they thought the sooner they converted all the Jews, maybe Jesus would come sooner. Shall I go into the violence used sometimes to achieve this end? The strict laws of the church forbid using force; but the idea often tempted people to go too far.

Thus it was acceptable to force Jews to attend church. If they began to nod off, hit them with a stick. That was done.

Or tell them to convert or leave. Convert or be made into a class of underlings.

What amazes me is your reviling of the Popes who have taken a more benevolent interpretation of this belief. They don't want to impose Christianity on the Jews by force or coercion. And you revile them?

What sort of foolishness is it to say the Jews blaspheme God when Jesus said that Jews know what they worship? That salvation is of the Jews? You seem a bit over the top to me. Is there any group on the face of this earth that you can write about without feeling the need to be insulting?

You seem unprepared to be here if you do not know the history of the Catholic church better. Many of the early Church Fathers wrote about this. What is in the Catechism today is nothing new. I'm not going to copy and paste from this article, only provide a link:

Patristic Era / Israel

You could also find out about this by reading Jewish sources. They also remember how this belief had unfortunate results for them when people thought they could make Jesus come sooner by forcing the Jews to convert. I can't believe you are this naive -- much of the antisemitism in the Catholic Church came about out of frustration with Jews refusing to convert.
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
Revelation Chapter 7.

ped
Ped,

No Bible verses allowed here. I asked for something from your Church authority as in denominational.
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  #25  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:53 AM
ElpidioLGagolinan's Avatar
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
Ped,

No Bible verses allowed here. I asked for something from your Church authority as in denominational.
What I was trying to say is the Bible clearly teach the conversion of the Jews in the last days. There is no need for denominational endorsement. The Book of Romans also teach this.

ped
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  #26  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
What I was trying to say is the Bible clearly teach the conversion of the Jews in the last days. There is no need for denominational endorsement. The Book of Romans also teach this.

ped
Fair enough.

Would the timeline of events be a problem for you since you believe in the Rapture?
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  #27  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:45 PM
ElpidioLGagolinan's Avatar
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Default Re: Jews convert to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
Fair enough.

Would the timeline of events be a problem for you since you believe in the Rapture?
My belief has accounted for that, after the Rapture ( pre-tribulation) , the 144,000 Jews will evangelize the world and multitudes of tribulation saints will work too. These is part of the scenario that I espouse, but I do leave myself open for actual fulfillment of prophecies since Christians have many views on the timing of the Rapture even its reality.

Meanwhile Harold Camping a radio preacher claims May 21,2011 is the Rapture, but for me it is any day now.

ped
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