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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

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  #1  
Old 10-09-2010, 07:15 AM
RichardBurger's Avatar
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Default "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

"Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

If you can see it, all the persecutions of true Christians has come from the religious. In this writing I am going to point out what I see in religions.

James 1:27 (NKJ)
27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

The above verse tells us what true religion is. But religions as we know them today do not fit into the above definition. It would seem that looking after the orphans and widows in their trouble is an after thought of most religions. Nor is there anyone that can keep him/her self unspotted from the world.

Even in the days of the Tower of Babble men made up religions based on their imaginations. Each religion had a leader who, with a supposed higher knowledge of God, lead the people. These leaders used this to control others.

When Constantine, a man who knew many false gods of the world's religions, organized the Christian church into a physical Church, and a state sanctioned church, he set it up like all of the other religions of the times. He was influenced by the Pagan Roman religions as well as the Jewish religion.

It was not long after Constantine made the Christian Religion a state religion that the leaders of the state sanctioned church went from being persecuted, by others, to persecuting all those that did not willingly believe, and submit, to the RCC doctrines.

For well over a thousand years, the Roman Catholic Church hunted down all that disagreed with them, called them "heretics" and had them killed by the secular rulers. I believe that some of these "heretics" were children of God who believed in Jesus but refused the doctrines advocated by the RCC but I cant prove it.

But the Roman Catholic Church was not alone. The protestant Churches that broke away persecuted those with other beliefs as well, and some also had people burned at the stake. Think about Calvin and his influence in the city of Geneva. His policy was not tolerant of the beliefs of others. Many people with different ideas, including Catholics, were put to death between 1542 and 1564. It is a fact that even on Christian forums there are those that are not tolerant of others that do not share their beliefs and if it wer possible, they would have those that disagree with them burned at the stake.

Think about it, all through history religions have caused wars, suffering, and slavery. Even today we have a religion that causes some to kill for it. It is also true that many, on forums, practice character assassination and harassment towards those who do not believe the same as they do. It is the different doctrines, rituals, ceremonies, and the ideas on living life, that men have in religion that separate men today. In every nation where religion has controlled, or controls, the secular government there has been oppression and murder in the name of religion. The framers of the USA Constitution took this into consideration when they separated, by law, religion from the secular government.

It should be noticed that all persecution of the Children of God has come from the religious sector. It was the religious leaders (Pharisees) that persecuted Jesus. It was religious Jews that stoned Stephen to death (Acts 7) and tried to kill Paul (Acts 21).

Today there are religious people trying to place people under religious governments. The problem is under whose interpretation of religion are we to live.

Religion is what man does for the god they have created in their own mind. However, the gospel of Jesus Christ is not a religion. It is not about what man does for God but is about what God has done for man. It is God making a way for each, and everyone, of us to come back to Him and have a personal relationship with Him even though they are still sinful. God walked with man in the garden and wants to walk with man today. It is this relationship that God is interested in, not rituals and ceremonies that men do to look so religious.

But most do not want a close, honest, personal, relationship with God in their hearts. They prefer to have a relationship with an impersonal religion. Why, because they do not have to be honest with it. They can hide their deeds and thoughts.

John 3:19-20 (NKJ)
19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

Jesus is the light and everyone that comes to Him in a personal relationship must expose his or her deeds and thoughts to Him. Anyone can participate in an organized religion. Organized religion cannot see into the heart.

Even the Bible says that religion is not what we think it is:

Col 2:20-23 (NKJ)
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
22 which all concern things which perish with the using-- according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

2 Cor 11:13-15 (NKJ)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (NKJ)

Satan's goal is not to have you involved in overt sin and iniquity. Satan's goal is to have you appear righteous on the outside but spiritually dead on the inside. He wants you to be religious, but lost, just as the scribes and Pharisees (Matt 23:25-28)

Paul, a Jew among Jews, knowledgeable in the Jewish traditions and laws in religion, gave them all up and counted them as rubbish in order to gain Christ. He said nothing about religion because that is what he had given up.

Phil 3:8 (NKJ)
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2010, 07:23 AM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardBurger View Post
.....If you can see it, all the persecutions of true Christians has come from the religious.....
Indeed. Mother Theresa was religious, and so was Pope John Paul II.

As far as I'm concerned, they were far better Christians than you are.

I just love how a MAN comes in here and puts down the traditions of MAN.

Hey kids: Can you spell "Hypocrite"?

Oh, but I do have a question: You mention "True Christians". Who are true Christians? Please enlighten us.
I will assume that you consider yourself to be a "True Christian". Yet, at the same time, you have been proven to post lies and false statements in this forum. Is that what a "True" Christian does?

Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 10-09-2010 at 07:27 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2010, 07:36 AM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
All the ministers listed on our home page are "religious men." Why would you come here and suggest they are not true Christians?
uhhhh, care to re-word your anti-religious rants Mr. Buger?
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2010, 08:58 AM
Linsinbigler's Avatar
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

Quote:
James 1:27 (NKJ)
27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

The above verse tells us what true religion is. But religions as we know them today do not fit into the above definition. It would seem that looking after the orphans and widows in their trouble is an after thought of most religions. Nor is there anyone that can keep him/her self unspotted from the world.
Well, my parish fits into the definition. We are especially heavy on the widows, and there is no shortage of visiting them in their trouble, nor a shortage of visiting the spiritually parentless in their trouble. And they are constantly being challenged to entrust their whole lives to God and keep themselves unspotted from the world by abiding in Christ.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2010, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardBurger View Post
"Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

If you can see it, all the persecutions of true Christians has come from the religious. In this writing I am going to point out what I see in religions.

James 1:27 (NKJ)
27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

The above verse tells us what true religion is. But religions as we know them today do not fit into the above definition. It would seem that looking after the orphans and widows in their trouble is an after thought of most religions. Nor is there anyone that can keep him/her self unspotted from the world.

Even in the days of the Tower of Babble men made up religions based on their imaginations. Each religion had a leader who, with a supposed higher knowledge of God, lead the people. These leaders used this to control others.

When Constantine, a man who knew many false gods of the world's religions, organized the Christian church into a physical Church, and a state sanctioned church, he set it up like all of the other religions of the times. He was influenced by the Pagan Roman religions as well as the Jewish religion.

It was not long after Constantine made the Christian Religion a state religion that the leaders of the state sanctioned church went from being persecuted, by others, to persecuting all those that did not willingly believe, and submit, to the RCC doctrines.

For well over a thousand years, the Roman Catholic Church hunted down all that disagreed with them, called them "heretics" and had them killed by the secular rulers. I believe that some of these "heretics" were children of God who believed in Jesus but refused the doctrines advocated by the RCC but I can‘t prove it.

But the Roman Catholic Church was not alone. The protestant Churches that broke away persecuted those with other beliefs as well, and some also had people burned at the stake. Think about Calvin and his influence in the city of Geneva. His policy was not tolerant of the beliefs of others. Many people with different ideas, including Catholics, were put to death between 1542 and 1564. It is a fact that even on Christian forums there are those that are not tolerant of others that do not share their beliefs and if it wer possible, they would have those that disagree with them burned at the stake.

Think about it, all through history religions have caused wars, suffering, and slavery. Even today we have a religion that causes some to kill for it. It is also true that many, on forums, practice character assassination and harassment towards those who do not believe the same as they do. It is the different doctrines, rituals, ceremonies, and the ideas on living life, that men have in religion that separate men today. In every nation where religion has controlled, or controls, the secular government there has been oppression and murder in the name of religion. The framers of the USA Constitution took this into consideration when they separated, by law, religion from the secular government.

It should be noticed that all persecution of the Children of God has come from the religious sector. It was the religious leaders (Pharisees) that persecuted Jesus. It was religious Jews that stoned Stephen to death (Acts 7) and tried to kill Paul (Acts 21).

Today there are religious people trying to place people under religious governments. The problem is under whose interpretation of religion are we to live.

Religion is what man does for the god they have created in their own mind. However, the gospel of Jesus Christ is not a religion. It is not about what man does for God but is about what God has done for man. It is God making a way for each, and everyone, of us to come back to Him and have a personal relationship with Him even though they are still sinful. God walked with man in the garden and wants to walk with man today. It is this relationship that God is interested in, not rituals and ceremonies that men do to look so religious.

But most do not want a close, honest, personal, relationship with God in their hearts. They prefer to have a relationship with an impersonal religion. Why, because they do not have to be honest with it. They can hide their deeds and thoughts.

John 3:19-20 (NKJ)
19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

Jesus is the light and everyone that comes to Him in a personal relationship must expose his or her deeds and thoughts to Him. Anyone can participate in an organized religion. Organized religion cannot see into the heart.

Even the Bible says that religion is not what we think it is:

Col 2:20-23 (NKJ)
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
22 which all concern things which perish with the using-- according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

2 Cor 11:13-15 (NKJ)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (NKJ)

Satan's goal is not to have you involved in overt sin and iniquity. Satan's goal is to have you appear righteous on the outside but spiritually dead on the inside. He wants you to be religious, but lost, just as the scribes and Pharisees (Matt 23:25-28)

Paul, a Jew among Jews, knowledgeable in the Jewish traditions and laws in religion, gave them all up and counted them as rubbish in order to gain Christ. He said nothing about religion because that is what he had given up.

Phil 3:8 (NKJ)
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
John 8
1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Apparently there is one to accuse her.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2010, 11:35 AM
RichardBurger's Avatar
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

1 Corinthians 2:2-5 NKJV
2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

My faith is not in mens great ideas in religions. It is in Jesus and His work on the cross on my behalf. I have not built my house on sand (men) but on the power of God to save, teach, and keep me saved.
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2010, 11:40 AM
winsome's Avatar
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardBurger View Post
When Constantine, a man who knew many false gods of the world's religions, organized the Christian church into a physical Church, and a state sanctioned church, he set it up like all of the other religions of the times. He was influenced by the Pagan Roman religions as well as the Jewish religion.
This is not history. The Church was organised from the very beginning. In Acts we see the Church being formed and organised, bishops, priests and deacons appointed. The subsequent years show the same pattern.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardBurger View Post
It was not long after Constantine made the Christian Religion a state religion that the leaders of the state sanctioned church went from being persecuted, by others, to persecuting all those that did not willingly believe, and submit, to the RCC doctrines.
More false history Constantine did not make Christianity a state religion.

Lets look at the actual history of the Church under Constantine and afterwards.

Prior to
Constantine the Church suffered several persecutions. But in one of the battles for the Imperial throne (of the west of the Empire, the Empire being split at this time). Constantine defeated Maxentius (312 AD) although his army was only one fifth of the size. He attributed this to a vision he had of the Christian God, and his soldiers had a cross on their shields although most of them were pagans. In his gratitude he tolerated Christian worship in his empire the edict of Milan (313 AD). This gave no preferential treatment of Christians but put them on the same footing as pagans as regards taxes etc .

He then married his sister to Licinius who controlled the East and secured similar toleration for Christians in the East.
Constantine was generous to the Christian Church and restored buildings that had been confiscated. Licinius hower continued to persecute Christians and there followed wars between Constantine and Licinius until Constantine defeated him and he was executed in 325 and Constantine was sole Emperor. Soon after this he moved his headquarters from Rome to Constantinople. Constantine remained a pagan until shortly before his death in 337 AD.

After
Constantine the empire was at times split and at other times united. After Constantine I, the empire was again split in two with Constantius II in the east and Constantine II in the west.
Constantine II was followed by Constans I and then Constantius II (from the east) became emperor of the west as well.

He was followed by Julian the Apostate (a pagan) and he was followed by Jovian (both sole emperors).

Then in east Valens and Theodosius I; in the west Valentinian II , Gratian and Valentinun II. And Theodosius I

In 379 Theodosius I became Emperor of the East. In 380 he and Gratian (in the west) made Christianity the state religion some 43 years and many Emperors after
Constantine (6 in the east, 8 in the west).
__________________
It isn't learned talk that saves man or makes a saint of him; only a life well lived can claim God's friendship. (Thomas Kempis)
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2010, 11:52 AM
thelowlyfisherman's Avatar
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

So, he's not a history buff, that should stop him from accusing everyone else.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardBurger View Post
1 Corinthians 2:2-5 NKJV
2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

My faith is not in men’s great ideas in religions. It is in Jesus and His work on the cross on my behalf. I have not built my house on sand (men) but on the power of God to save, teach, and keep me saved.
It seems you have faith in yourself. You big ideas about what the Bible teaches is what you present here. Of course, under the guise of just trusting Scripture. You follow yourself.
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2010, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

Apparently he doesn't trust history books either.
(I'm sorry. I couldn't resist. I will not pile on anymore.)
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