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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Born Again or...?

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  #1  
Old 08-31-2010, 11:50 AM
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Default Born Again or...?

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." I John 3:9

So then does the verse in I John mean that anyone who is still sinning is not yet born again, perhaps still in the process of being born or...?
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." I John 3:9

So then does the verse in I John mean that anyone who is still sinning is not yet born again, perhaps still in the process of being born or...?
John,

Regarding that verse from 1 John 3:9... I believe that that is accomplished by: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28


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And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2

If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

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Originally Posted by PermaPetra View Post


John,

Regarding that verse from 1 John 3:9... I believe that that is accomplished by: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28


So then, would you say that when we, in spite of our faith toward God, commit sin, that this is a "good" as described in Rom 8:28?

I go to the following verse in which Jesus says: "...Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18

To me any time we sin, it is the evil still in us that sins, and anytime we do something "good" in the eyes of God, it is God in us that does the "Good"!
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
So then, would you say that when we, in spite of our faith toward God, commit sin, that this is a "good" as described in Rom 8:28?

I go to the following verse in which Jesus says: "...Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18

To me any time we sin, it is the evil still in us that sins, and anytime we do something "good" in the eyes of God, it is God in us that does the "Good"!
God takes that which was done wrong and turns it into good.

I have an example... one time I got very angry. It was a possessive/protective anger and was not, imo, a righteous anger. This anger accomplished the exact opposite of what I desired. The result of that exact opposite event was what was best.

Had I not gotten angry, what I did not desire would not not have happened. My anger prompted the other individual to be of the mindset "you can't tell me what to do" and thereby it accomplished God's goal in this one particular circumstance. Had I not gotten angry, the other party would not have been motivated to do what God had wanted them to do in the first place.

So... "all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

My anger, as it turned out, was not a sin, but was instead what motivated another to actually do what was best. The individual that I got angry with agrees, they would not have done what they did if I had not of gotten angry.

Was I good? No. But Got turned it to good... to His plan, to accomplish what He desired.

I felt terrible after getting angry, truly. But, after seeing the good that came from it, I was gladdened. Truly, God worked a miracle in that situation.

Good questions, John.
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And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2

If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

Very good, perma...

Remember the example also of Joseph and his brethren:

"...Joseph, being seventeen years old,.." Gen 37:1

"And it came to pass, when Joseph was come unto his brethren, that they stripped Joseph out of his coat, his coat of many colours that was on him;" Gen 37:23

"Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt." Gen 37:28

Imagine the feelings in the flesh of Joseph! He was sold from a comfortable place in his father's house into slavery by his own brothers. He lost a large part of his natural life which would have been spent with his family. Yet, after jacob's death in Egypt when his brothers feared that he would take vengeance on them...

"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them." Gen 50:20-21

The sins of his brothers were used to accomplish the purpose of God! God's purpose is always "Good"!

Glory to His name!
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

Exactly!

Amen!

Glory to God in the Highest!
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And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2

If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

John, being born of God is not the same as being born of the flesh. What people see before them when they read is the flesh, flesh and blood. That is the sin. As for the seed within themselves. The word is the seed. If you understand you do not teach the seed of man, you teach the word of God instead so therefor glorifying God , not self. Then you do not sin.

Let me say it like this. If you teach the word as this world sees it , you plant the seed of man and in your own opinion so , creating people in your own image. But know if you teach what the spirit says , you create sons of your own but yet they are created in the image of God, not you. The seed is planted and people do, and believe and seek to be what they believe to be like God.

Or even better John, to teach the understanding of man is breaking all the commandments of God. That is all sin. You speak untruth, you steal the righteousness away from them, you slay them spiritually , you make a graven image of God, you commit spiritual adultry, you covet your neighbours things, you take the lords name in vain, you make an Idel image to worship. all of it is sin John.

Last edited by colin : 08-31-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

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Originally Posted by colin View Post
John, being born of God is not the same as being born of the flesh. What people see before them when they read is the flesh, flesh and blood. That is the sin. As for the seed within themselves. The word is the seed. If you understand you do not teach the seed of man, you teach the word of God instead so therefor glorifying God , not self. Then you do not sin.

Let me say it like this. If you teach the word as this world sees it , you plant the seed of man and in your own opinion so , creating people in your own image. But know if you teach what the spirit says , you create sons of your own but yet they are created in the image of God, not you. The seed is planted and people do, and believe and seek to be what they believe to be like God.

Or even better John, to teach the understanding of man is breaking all the commandments of God. That is all sin. You speak untruth, you steal the righteousness away from them, you slay them spiritually , you make a graven image of God, you commit spiritual adultry, you covet your neighbours things, you take the lords name in vain, you make an Idel image to worship. all of it is sin John.
Colin~
I love the Bible. I love you. I just can't see that the Bible has two completely distinct messages and that one is evil and the other good. (if that is, in fact, what you believe) I know there is often a deeper meaning to be seen than the initial literal meaning, but that doesn't make the literal meaning evil. How can there be evil in the Word of God? And if the whole Bible is nothing but elusive parable that must be sought after, how then could children, or the mentally challenged, or even just poor readers ever hope to learn from it? You must remember that the Bible is God's word to us, but Jesus is God. Some know and love Jesus without ever studying the Bible. Yes, this is possible! You love the Bible and have devoted hours of study to it, and some of what you see amazes me, but remember your roots. Remember the first time you picked it up. Remember how you read it back then and how you grew from what you read. Can you truly say it was evil? Am I misunderstanding you?
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colin View Post
John, being born of God is not the same as being born of the flesh. What people see before them when they read is the flesh, flesh and blood. That is the sin. As for the seed within themselves. The word is the seed. If you understand you do not teach the seed of man, you teach the word of God instead so therefor glorifying God , not self. Then you do not sin.

Let me say it like this. If you teach the word as this world sees it , you plant the seed of man and in your own opinion so , creating people in your own image. But know if you teach what the spirit says , you create sons of your own but yet they are created in the image of God, not you. The seed is planted and people do, and believe and seek to be what they believe to be like God.

Or even better John, to teach the understanding of man is breaking all the commandments of God. That is all sin. You speak untruth, you steal the righteousness away from them, you slay them spiritually , you make a graven image of God, you commit spiritual adultry, you covet your neighbours things, you take the lords name in vain, you make an Idel image to worship. all of it is sin John.
While my understanding is still in a measure through a glass darkly, the Lord is continuing to help me decrease in me and increase in Him. I do believe that I agree with you on this Colin. We cannot understand it on our own in our own fleshly nature, but when His Spirit alone is directly all of our steps then we will understand as He understands.

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Born Again or...?

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Colin~
I love the Bible. I love you. I just can't see that the Bible has two completely distinct messages and that one is evil and the other good. (if that is, in fact, what you believe) I know there is often a deeper meaning to be seen than the initial literal meaning, but that doesn't make the literal meaning evil. How can there be evil in the Word of God? And if the whole Bible is nothing but elusive parable that must be sought after, how then could children, or the mentally challenged, or even just poor readers ever hope to learn from it? You must remember that the Bible is God's word to us, but Jesus is God. Some know and love Jesus without ever studying the Bible. Yes, this is possible! You love the Bible and have devoted hours of study to it, and some of what you see amazes me, but remember your roots. Remember the first time you picked it up. Remember how you read it back then and how you grew from what you read. Can you truly say it was evil? Am I misunderstanding you?
Gentlewind, it is not the Bible that has the evil message. It is our own heart, to the extent that our own heart has not been completely transformed by His Spirit, that encounters an evil message...
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