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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Catholic vs. Non-Catholic church

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  #141  
Old 11-09-2009, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Catholic vs. Non-Catholic church

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Originally Posted by SolaVerbumDei View Post
The Catholic Church has this straight. Our Faith is in Jesus. And precisely because of that we follow what he prescribed: membership in the Catholic Church. We do not believe in the Church but we instead believe the Church precisely because of Jesus!

That is why the Catholic Church, founded by Christ, rejects denominationalism [either denominations of one or of many].

It is very telling that those here who disagree even challenge us for demanding biblical proof! Bible Christians upset because we ask for Bible proof!!!
Please, be patient with me. I'm not sure what you are asking. Proof of what?
The Good Samaritan speaks of others who put love in action.

I have attended the Roman Catholic Church for 25 years. My wife is Catholic, my children are Catholic, and were schooled Catholic until we could no longer afford it. The Catholic Church is my community.
I was confirmed Lutheran.
Peace be with you.
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  #142  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:35 PM
SolaVerbumDei's Avatar
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Default Re: Catholic vs. Non-Catholic church

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Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
Please, be patient with me. I'm not sure what you are asking. Proof of what?
The Good Samaritan speaks of others who put love in action.

I have attended the Roman Catholic Church for 25 years. My wife is Catholic, my children are Catholic, and were schooled Catholic until we could no longer afford it. The Catholic Church is my community.
I was confirmed Lutheran.
Peace be with you.
Not sure if I understood you initially so I apologize if I misunderstood you.

I only try to present the proposition that the Church as Jesus intended it to be, a true community, universal in nature, with true authority deposited in the offices of priest, bishop and Pope is that community Jesyus formed and intended us all to join. And that nowhere in Scripture we read that that Church is an optional choice.
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  #143  
Old 11-10-2009, 01:14 AM
preachergirl
 
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Default Re: Catholic vs. Non-Catholic church

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Originally Posted by SolaVerbumDei View Post
We disagree, tremendously! But again, if anyone can find in Scripture that your path is the way Jesus established, I 'll embrace it. If not, then I must not accept the traditions of men.

Precisely because I give God the Glory, I say what I say!
Again, even if you search the scriptures, it's in them you think you find Life? In the letter? While they speak of the Spirit? It's the Spirit that quickens or makes us Alive or makes the candle of Light burn brighter to what the "Spirit" (who is that Light, vs. the letter) reveals in the letter; the flesh profits nothing. Is it mortal or spiritual reasoning to say that the large number of people cannot interpret so we need a few in the flesh who can?

Is God..his Spirit...bound by the limitations of numbers of people who cannot all agree so that they need to appoint a King? Or is this what seems right to a man? And what were the results of man be given Kings because it seemed right to him that he should have them?

If all the answers are held by man, where goes our sense of Need and necessity to seek (our Father?)....ourself? But if we follow all the direction of man we have security in God? Is God a respector of persons?

The greater chances are that we only identify the answers we look for, which are the ones we have collected knowledge to receive. We are told to test the spirits and to discern them, and if we can't hear our own Father's answers ourself how can we discern his Spirit against those that masquerade as his Spirit?
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  #144  
Old 11-10-2009, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Catholic vs. Non-Catholic church

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Originally Posted by preachergirl View Post
Again, even if you search the scriptures, it's in them you think you find Life? In the letter? While they speak of the Spirit? It's the Spirit that quickens or makes us Alive or makes the candle of Light burn brighter to what the "Spirit" (who is that Light, vs. the letter) reveals in the letter; the flesh profits nothing. Is it mortal or spiritual reasoning to say that the large number of people cannot interpret so we need a few in the flesh who can?

Is God..his Spirit...bound by the limitations of numbers of people who cannot all agree so that they need to appoint a King? Or is this what seems right to a man? And what were the results of man be given Kings because it seemed right to him that he should have them?

If all the answers are held by man, where goes our sense of Need and necessity to seek (our Father?)....ourself? But if we follow all the direction of man we have security in God? Is God a respector of persons?

The greater chances are that we only identify the answers we look for, which are the ones we have collected knowledge to receive. We are told to test the spirits and to discern them, and if we can't hear our own Father's answers ourself how can we discern his Spirit against those that masquerade as his Spirit?
I do not agree. First, there is no inherent difference between letter and Spirit properly understood, especially when the letter we refer to is the Word of God.

Second, Jesus chose to reveal himself through his Church and through the Word. Thus, that some mean adduce to have the Spirit can be as carnal as anything else especially when important issues come to bear where they cannot find justification for in the Word or the history of the Church!

Is very interesting that, and I am definitely not saying you, when a Catholic speaks of a doctrine some say is not in Scripture they immediately reject it based on supposed lack of Scriptural foundations and when they cannot find justification for something as crucial as the subject here at hand they appeal to a supposed "spirit."

If we all can only identify answers we look for then we all ought to become nihilists. It is precisely because the transmission of Christian doctrine is not through a supposed individual prompting that we can even find only "the answers we are looking for" even by appeals to "promptings"; which promptings lead some one way and others in the opposite direction.

Invariably, I get answers to the questions I pose here that already assume that direct revelation is the way to discern when that is the question at hand!

God is boundless in his nature. But he can bind himself to his own Word. Thus, he can and did communicate to us what was his intended purpose on this crucial issue; and he did it in his Word and his Church.

Of course, individually, we all need to make a choice on whether or not we, individually, accept the Church and her teachings or we go by what we individually think or feel is a "prompting." That goes without saying! No one obliges me to be Catholic, I choose it and based on reason, history and the Word I am convinced that the Lord called me to accept the Church and her teachings. You may individually see otherwise. But that does not establish subjectivism as the criteria for truth.

We have seen a movement in Protestantism, springing from the assumptions of Sola Scriptura from an adherence to the Tradition to the individual determination of truth. Yes, always under the position that the Lord prompts us. I can find no warrant for that in my spirit, in Scripture, in history, the Fathers, nowhere!

It is that system the one enthroning man as the ultimate decider, each man, under the belief, or hope, that God directs each man. Now, the individual discernment of spiritual truth seems to even trump Scripture itself! Thus, I can trust my own inclinations as coming from the Spirit even if they even contradict Scripture; as I believe the "direct revelation" paradigm does. This creates a hyper-individualistic approach to truth: I feel guided, good enough for me, end of story.

You see, the Lord experienced well that not every hearer will agree with him. His Church knows well that theological unanimity coming from every individual is impossible, thus, precisely because he is not limited by individual disagreement, he deposited his Truth in the official decrees of his Church. Then each has to discern whether they accept his truth where he deposited it or they go on their own. Because I believe that is biblical and historical and the contrary position is not I ask for evidence from the other side.

What I am offered then is a human opinion that some, not necessarily you, don't even see a need to justify with evidence.

Finally, as I am not Sola Scriptura, I do not find life in Scripture alone but in Jesus. Now, Scripture is an important element to understand what that Jesus wanted to communicate. I also think his Church is another and the Tradition is another and his promptings another. All in line, all agree? I then found the truth. If all are in line but my "prompting" maybe the prompting is not of God or I am simply confused, or in search and very close to the truth but not yet fully there.

Last edited by SolaVerbumDei : 11-10-2009 at 10:16 AM.
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  #145  
Old 05-12-2019, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Catholic vs. Non-Catholic church

Something never reported in the US press & here I ask why not?
No animosity intended or implied


Rabbi’s think that they can spit the Catholics away----
Rabbi David Rosen is a talented and respected rabbi, originally from the UK.
Since in some circles it seems to be more encouraged to spit on Christian clergymen than build bridges (this week's events in the Old City), Rabbi Rosen is unpopular with Eskin and his ilk.
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.

It has been Jerusalem's dirty little secret for decades: Orthodox yeshiva students and other Jewish residents vandalizing churches and spitting on Christian clergyman as they walk along the narrow, ancient stone streets of the Old City.
.,.,..,.,.....
Christians say ultra-Orthodox Jewish students spit at them or at the ground when they pass. There have also been acts of vandalism against statues of the Virgin Mary.
,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

You cannot find one incident where Muslims spit on Christians but you can find countless incidents where spitting on Christians is the norm, not the exception-------------------

Google: “spitting on Christians”
I did & I got About 365,000 results [hits] (0.49 seconds)

Has the American press ever covered the above-?
NO; the question is; why not?

No animosity intended or implied

I'm just posting something I found on the world wide web and decided to share it with fellow Christians
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  #146  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Catholic vs. Non-Catholic church

There is always those looking to divide those who worship God, be they Jew or Christian. And you seem to be one who likes to stir the pot. No offense, like you, I just speak it as I see it.
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Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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  #147  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Catholic vs. Non-Catholic church

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Originally Posted by lookingtosee View Post
......Christians say ultra-Orthodox Jewish students spit at them or at the ground when they pass. There have also been acts of vandalism against statues of the Virgin Mary.

You cannot find one incident where Muslims spit on Christians....
Right, no incidents where Muslims spit on Christians, just incidents where Muslims blew up Christians and murdered thousands in terrorist bombing attacks, and chopped off the heads of Christians.

I am glad this fascist was banned.
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- Saint Pope John Paul II
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