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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

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  #1  
Old 06-28-2009, 11:44 PM
Windsong's Avatar
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Default Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

Actually if we look at what the Bible has to say, concerning the fall, it just takes up a small portion of Scripture. But if we go through it too fast we miss some important things (isn’t that the way the Bible is everywhere though .

Genesis 3:1-6 1Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


The Bible tells us that Eve (and I think it is safe to assume Adam as well as we are told he was with her so all this applies to him as well) SAW that that the tree was good for food – the only way she “saw” that is if she saw one eat it…, become wise by eating and not dying. She observed the snake touch the fruit, and eat the fruit – saw him respond in a wise fashion for an animal. She decided to test her observations, and she tasted the fruit. This is actually very scientific in her methods. She observed, then tested her observations. The test went just fine.

Adam waited for her testing of her observations. Was there anything wrong with her method? Not really. What she observed was there for observation – the snake ate the fruit, and he appeared to be wise as he spoke to her in a very convincing manner. She tested her observations by tasting the fruit – while we don’t know if it tasted good or not, we know it didn’t make her any wiser (her eyes were not opened till Adam ate according to scripture). All looked good – So what went wrong? First time used and the scientific method failed.

Adam took the fruit after seeing what Eve observed, and seeing that Eve tasted the fruit and DIDN’T die… that was Adam’s test of the observations as well. – Eve was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh and she didn’t die. Actually there was no change in her that is mentioned at all. Their observations were good, their assumptions seem logical – yet they were WRONG – terribly wrong.

Man is finite and God is pointing out to man that apart from God things are not right – we need Him to make the right choices. Apart from God all is vanity. This applied before the fall as well as after salvation. Think we have seen that message elsewhere in Scripture. God wanted man to trust Him completely, to depend on Him for all man needed – for information which was beyond man. Man even in an unfallen state was finite and not all knowing. Adam and Eve’s understanding was good from what they understood – it was accurate observation and testing of their observations seems good. The problem was their conclusions – though they were reasoned and logical, they were wrong. There was information that Adam and Eve didn’t understand. We will deal with Adam because all that applies to Eve also applies to Adam.

1. The fruit was not poison – but God never said it was.

2. The snake could eat the fruit without harm – we are not told that God told the snake not to eat or he would die – God told only Adam that.

3. The snake became wise – actually is was a fallen archangel who was behind the snakes wisdom so the fruit didn’t make the snake wise at all it just appeared that way.

4. Eve didn’t die and she was part of man – well it is odd how covenants work but God didn’t tell Eve not to eat but Adam before Eve was even created. We know this is the issue because Eve’s eyes were opened when Adam ate, not when she ate – all fall in Adam not in Eve – this is according to Scripture not opinion.

So what should Adam have done? This is a real application for WWJD.

1. When Adam saw the snake he should have exercised dominion and held the snake accountable for what was going on… At the point when he understood Satan was involved he should have called on God (Satan is not under his dominion, however the snake was.)

2. When Adam saw Eve touching the fruit – he should have knocked it out of her hand.

4. When Adam saw Eve eat, if he really believe that she would die because she came from him he should have gone to God with Eve and offered his life in her stead - that is what Jesus did isn’t it?


Adam failed the WWJD test. Adam watched as the perfect mate God had given him eat a fruit in front of him which he thought would cause her to die, and he watched to see if she indeed would. At a very basic level sin is disobeying a direct command from God – that is what we have here. Eve wasn’t given the command by God, Adam was. Adam was being tested for his reaction to the situation – He not only didn’t care if Eve would die (he after all had another rib) when his decision was wrong he had the nerve to blame God – God had shown him that he was “not good” – God’s words not mine – without his mate and here Adam blamed God and the thing that made him “good” in God’s sight when he is the one who disobeyed.

Today God calls for us to pray and to trust Him in all things. When worldly observations and tests seem to throw it in our face that the Word of God isn’t trustworthy or true; we are regenerate therefore we are not fallen any longer and God wants us to learn the lesson which Adam was suppose to have learned – God is infinite, man is not – God is omniscience (all-Knowing) man is not. When something is outside our understanding God wants us to come to Him and take Him at His Word – He is trustworthy and true. You do not have to compromise on any point if we trust God we are on the right side. Our instruction is to stand firm till the end, knowing that Jesus Christ is Truth and we can depend on God – never on our own understanding (lean not on your own understanding is what the Bible says) much less that of the world. That is what Adam did, Adam failed.

Thoughts?
In Christ
Windy
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2009, 12:20 AM
preachergirl
 
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

This was a good teaching Windy. Interesting and enlightening. I agree that there is a good lesson here....that "we Do Not" have to fully understand all things at the scientific level...so that if we don't, we think we can tempt God and step over lines he has set for us! I learned this lesson by experience in a Big way! And I mean I learned it!....That if God ever tells me something or advises or warns me...the very first and utmost thing that I need to do is...Believe & Obey! If I know what's good for me. It's ok to try and understand or be enlightened...but we may as well know right from the start that God is Right! And we do not seek to understand so that we can prove that it will be ok to do what God has told us not to...but we only seek to understand so that we might understand what we "KNOW" is Absolutely True just because God said it! And this is one place where it is better to believe without seeing! Amen.
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:22 AM
Heneni
 
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by preachergirl View Post
This was a good teaching Windy. Interesting and enlightening. I agree that there is a good lesson here....that "we Do Not" have to fully understand all things at the scientific level...so that if we don't, we think we can tempt God and step over lines he has set for us! I learned this lesson by experience in a Big way! And I mean I learned it!....That if God ever tells me something or advises or warns me...the very first and utmost thing that I need to do is...Believe & Obey! If I know what's good for me. It's ok to try and understand or be enlightened...but we may as well know right from the start that God is Right! And we do not seek to understand so that we can prove that it will be ok to do what God has told us not to...but we only seek to understand so that we might understand what we "KNOW" is Absolutely True just because God said it! And this is one place where it is better to believe without seeing! Amen.


heneni
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsong View Post
Actually if we look at what the Bible has to say, concerning the fall, it just takes up a small portion of Scripture. But if we go through it too fast we miss some important things (isn’t that the way the Bible is everywhere though .
That is what Adam did, Adam failed.

Thoughts?
In Christ
Windy
interesting thoughts; so i will give mine also
what is eve but adam ?
so that ; could adam leave himself?
maybe he should of --- ( but i dont think that was the purpose )

were would we be if adam didnt fall ?
would there have been another eve ?

see; i think the picture goes beyond the simple answer
but hey---- just my thoughts
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

Do you have a real thought on this that you would like to add? I would love to hear other views that have some Biblical sense to them. Don't think I have read anything you have written so am not sure what kind of joke answer that is....

In Christ
Windy
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsong View Post
Do you have a real thought on this that you would like to add? I would love to hear other views that have some Biblical sense to them. Don't think I have read anything you have written so am not sure what kind of joke answer that is....

In Christ
Windy
was that to me ?
sorry ; my comment was not meant to be a joke
if it is to me ; give me a night to see if i can put my thoughts into words for you ; ok?
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  #7  
Old 07-01-2009, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

will check in later then

Windy
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2009, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Fall - comments?

I think we tend to run into alot of distractions and misunderstandings when we go the intellectual route. Understandably, it is a natural outcome of our enthusiasm in devotion, but it is misleading when we decide to satisfy our "human" nature (the flesh).

The knowledge gained in the Garden (knowledge of good and evil) is what we need to learn to use properly...

Hebrews 5:14

"But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their faculties trained by practice to distinguish good from evil".

When we are trained (2 Timothy 3:16) as babes in Christ (1 Corinthians 3:1) with the doctrine of Christ (Hebrews 6:1), we are "fed" with "milk", but then we must move on to "solid food" and train our faculties (the "renewal of the mind", Romans 12:2) in order to have a more mature relationship/devotion.

Of course it is always necessary to know right from wrong in order to be Godly, but "right/wrong" is only MAN'S "CODE of MORALITY".

God's intention for humanity is that we all live together peacefully (peaceful coexistence) and in harmony with each other. Therefore, He recognizes only two states of existence...

1) what is "GOOD" is......."ACCEPTABLE"

...and

2) what is "NOT GOOD" is "UNacceptable" (EVIL).

Mankind's code of right/wrong "morality" can be faulty and often include what we call "naughty", "sneaky", "a necessary evil", and many other excuses that we use to justify "variations" (James 1:17) based on what we each have decided to call "peace" (human nature is that "individuals" are in competition with each other).

This is why He says that...

Matthew 10:34

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"..............(the discerning "sword" of a Godly nature/spirit/character).

Ephesians 6:17

"sword of the spirit (which is the word of God").

God always wanted us to have this understanding of how to properly use the information gained in the Garden so that we would be able to properly govern ourselves (and our desire should be the same also).

1 Kings 3:9

"Give thy servant therefore an understanding mind to govern thy people, that I may discern between good and evil".

All verses are from the RSV.

Last edited by moreexcellentway : 07-04-2009 at 04:22 AM. Reason: words
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