[christkid777]

I find it rather interesting how we seem to seem to focus on certain aspect of the Christian life and seemingly ignore others. For instance we get really excited about doctrine and doctrinal correctness. For some of us the knowledge of doctrine gives us a sense of ability. We can beat someone down with our grasp of doctrine. And God is going to help us do it. The Word of God in the hands of a carnal person is as effective a weapon as a gun or knife, and can be used to inflict tremendous harm. But we don't seem to pay to much attention to the fruits of the Spirit. Why? Because if we were to actually bear the fruit of the Spirit we would have to shelve many of our accusatory and critical comments.

What are the fruits of the Spirit:

Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness
Ga 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Ga 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Ga 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit
Ga 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

and what constraints do they place on our behavior?

Ga 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Ga 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

How many times have we seen someone post a thread questioning the doctrinal beliefs of certain groups? One day it is speaking in tongues. Another day it is the validity of miracles. And then are Jehovah's Witnesses saved? Don't forget about Mary. And the trinity. And the spirit is always the same. The spirit of criticism. This group believes wrongly, I have the truth and if they don't come around to my way of thinking they will end up in hall. [detention hall] The one thing that always run true in these threads is the exaltation of the knowledge of the individual. They place their knowledge above all else. But there is something missing in all this.

** 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

As important as knowledge is in scripture it is what that knowledge of God produces that is really the issue.

1co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Those last four words:"it profits me nothing" are the words we like to gloss over. In our carnal minds knowledge and power are the greatest things. Our possession of knowledge exalts us. When we can look over the lives of others and say "I know where you went wrong" it makes us feel superior. At least in our own minds. When we can assert that we know things another does not know it gives our animal self the impression of dominance. "I could teach you a thing or two" we like to boast. And the devil just smiles. That man or woman is already ensnared. In pride. So much emphases placed on that which makes us feel important, and then those four little words "it profits me nothing".

So let me ask you this. If some one was not baptized would you call them a Christian? Most would say no. If a person has not accepted that Christ died for our sins would we consider them saved? Most would say no. If someone did not accept the virgin birth would we think they were saved? Most would say no. In so many doctrinal issues we would dismiss the salvation of an individual because it does not line up with scripture. And yet we tolerate and endure those whose hearts seem to contain no love. We accept those who show no mercy to those who don't agree with them. We honor those who will not endure their brothers shortcommings.

How does this work? How do we uphold scripture when it gives us the upper hand in an argument but we dismiss scripture when it demands of us personally what we do not want to give? How can we justify using scripture to prosecute and condemn our victims but fall sloppy dead when challenged to love and be longsuffering? It is time to stop. Stop the hypocrisy. If we don't love [or bear the other fruits of the Spirit] we are not Christians. No matter how much we know.

Originally Posted by christkid777

I find it rather interesting how we seem to seem to focus on certain aspect of the Christian life and seemingly ignore others. For instance we get really excited about doctrine and doctrinal correctness. For some of us the knowledge of doctrine gives us a sense of ability.........

Mea Culpa... ....sort of.

I do focus on "Orthodoxy" over "Orthopraxy". That is probably a failing in me. But in my defense I would say: It is difficult to have orthopraxy without orthodoxy. I mean, how can you practice the correct things if your practices are based on faulty teachings?

But still, the greatest commandment is to love thy neighbor and love God, which falls more under -praxy than -doxy.

Originally Posted by christkid777

.......So let me ask you this. If some one was not baptized would you call them a Christian? Most would say no. If a person has not accepted that Christ died for our sins would we consider them saved? Most would say no. If someone did not accept the virgin birth would we think they were saved? Most would say no...........

Well, I can say that I am not one of those who condemn others for their particular beliefs. Although I do believe that cetrtain practices are the "norm" and need to be obeyed, I am the last person who would say that someone will not be saved. In fact, I periodically get blasted for saying that a lot of professed Christians will be in hell while a number of Buddhists, Hindus, etc. will be in heaven.

[christkid777]

you must have a guilty conscience CC. I don't see you as a big trouble maker. I have not read everything you have posted but do not recall you tearing down another. Unless you need to confess?

Originally Posted by christkid777

you must have a guilty conscience CC. I don't see you as a big trouble maker. I have not read everything you have posted but do not recall you tearing down another. Unless you need to confess?

LOL. No.
I try not to tear down others and I don't condemn others.
But I am a bit guilty of focusing more on teaching than practice.

[christkid777]

Well CC, now you know better.

[Soulheart3]

I was thinking along this line myself James that all too often christians like to put boundries around God using a verse here or there (not looking at what the whole of scripture says on the subject) and stating that THAT was what God wants and that we had best do it if we know whats best for us (as if they know what God wants for us in all cases). NT Believers were baptized at different points in thier lives, some right away, some later, at least one never (the one on the cross). The trinity which also is contested as to how exactly it works (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). These are just 2 that come to mind right now.

Why is it that we of the finite minds not only attempt to know the mind of God, but to ensure that all others adhere to the boundries which they set up which they feel God and the believer must stay within?

You want to know which church is the true church? It is every believer in Christ, and only the Lord knows who all these people are, certainly not us. We are to judge the validity of whether to call a brother/sister as such based on the fruits they exhibit, and not how closely they adhere to everything we feel is correct to walk the perfect walk.

I personally would not encourage believers to leave a man-made church they attend, because it doesnt agree with everything that I do, as God may well have put them there for a purpose even if that church does have faults.
Now if we are led to leave a congregation by the Spirit of the Lord, then we should, but otherwise it might be wiser to simply be involved with wherever the Lord guides us to. Now I would encourage other said believers to pray for the Lords guidance through the spirit, for this is TRULY what brings us together, for the SPIRIT is ONE! I dont have to teach anyone any doctrine, all I have to do is to encourage them to listen to the guide that Christ sent us (the Holy Spirit) and that alone will set them on the right path with the right and best teacher of all doctrines. If I encourage anyone to follow more the guidance of the Holy Spirit, then we both will be following the leading of the same leader and draw us closer in unity without speaking one breath on the importance of unity in the church.

-Brad

[SeraphimH]

I think those who post on doctrinal correctness do so out of the love it generates. Without proper understanding, there is only wandering, since he/she has the Light (Bible) but no Path (proper understanding). It isn't done out of criticism, at least for me. I want others to see this truth, just as they want me to see what is truth to them. If it is done out of hatred, then it doesn't belong here, but if it's out of love of God, who am I to stop this?

CC is right in his post, orthodoxy creates orthopraxy. I simply can't see a different approach from my perspective.

Am I understanding you correctly James that your message is to alert us to our actions? To perhaps cause us to pause perhaps and think? I see that there has been a few things written by you which are all to rather bring us back in check as to what is in our hearts or better yet who is it we are serving.
At least this is what it causes me to do is to take a moment and think about my posts and to think of the content of what my posts have been and what motivates me to post and to once again reflect if it is in a spirit of love. I know there have been things at times I've said that later I could read and go oops I didn't mean it to sound that way. I do believe we all have those moments. Anyway James another good thread.

Originally Posted by MMari

I know there have been things at times I've said that later I could read and go oops I didn't mean it to sound that way. I do believe we all have those moments.

Those are called "Blond Moments"

Originally Posted by christkid777

If we don't love [or bear the other fruits of the Spirit] we are not Christians. No matter how much we know.

I actually liked all of your post but just kinda narrowed it down. I truly agree with you