[Brad]

When Jesus originally turned up, there was limited knowledge about the world at that time, at least compared to today.

If it happened that He was born in the 1950's or 60's, then would He have had the same impact? Would where He was born also have an affect? Joseph Smith got a new religion off the ground in America in the 19th century and scientology has only been going since the 50's. How would Jesus fare in the here and now?

Originally Posted by Brad

When Jesus originally turned up, there was limited knowledge about the world at that time, at least compared to today.

If it happened that He was born in the 1950's or 60's, then would He have had the same impact? Would where He was born also have an affect? Joseph Smith got a new religion off the ground in America in the 19th century and scientology has only been going since the 50's. How would Jesus fare in the here and now?

I think Christ's "movement" would never get off the ground today. Timing is as much a part of God's works as the "who" and "what" of his works.

Originally Posted by quietude

I think Christ's "movement" would never get off the ground today. Timing is as much a part of God's works as the "who" and "what" of his works.

I think just the opposite on this particular question, Jesse. His sheep hear His voice. Period. He would not be a tv evangelist. He would most likely just walk the streets ministering. The churches would for the most part scorn Him, and no doubt crucify Him.

So how would people find out about Him? As Leonard Ravenhill once said, "You do not have to advertise a fire." God would do what God does, man's hearts would do what man's hearts do. Nothing has really changed at all. It would make no matter when He came. The results would be identical.

Originally Posted by BruceG

I think just the opposite on this particular question, Jesse. His sheep hear His voice. Period. He would not be a tv evangelist. He would most likely just walk the streets ministering. The churches would for the most part scorn Him, and no doubt crucify Him.

So how would people find out about Him? As Leonard Ravenhill once said, "You do not have to advertise a fire." God would do what God does, man's hearts would do what man's hearts do. Nothing has really changed at all. It would make no matter when He came. The results would be identical.

I disagree. God is very aware of the condition of the world in which he places his servants. God knows what men will do with the agency that He gives them. He plays by His own rules.

Christ's ministry could only have been efffective at the very time in history in which it took place. The Roman empire allowed religious freedom to a great extent, which afforded Christ protection from the Scribes and Pharisees, who would attempted to kill him off at the first accusation of blasphemy. The very political entity from which the Jews longed for release was the very entity that protected the budding Church that Christ established, enabling it to gain strength to stand on its own. Had Christ come a few centuries earlier, or a few centuries later, I don't believe his Gospel would have taken root. I don't think so anyway.

I do understand the spirit of what you're saying. God's works cannot be stopped. I just believe that they can't be stopped because he knows exactly what to do when—His wisdom trumps man's agency, and the devil's ability to manipulate men.

Originally Posted by quietude

I disagree. God is very aware of the condition of the world in which he places his servants. God knows what men will do with the agency that He gives them. He plays by His own rules.

Christ's ministry could only have been efffective at the very time in history in which it took place. The Roman empire allowed religious freedom to a great extent, which afforded Christ protection from the Scribes and Pharisees, who would have killed him off at the first accusation of blasphemy. The very political entity from which the Jews longed for release was the very entity that protected the budding Church that Christ established, enabling it to gain strength to stand on its own. Had Christ come a few centuries earlier, or a few centuries later, I don't believe his Gospel would have taken root. I don't think so anyway.

I do understand the spirit of what you're saying. God's works cannot be stopped. I just believe that they can't be stopped because he knows exactly what to do when—His wisdom trumps man's agency, and the devil's ability to manipulate men.

Well then, we agree that we disagree, and yet we are agreeably disagreeing, agreed? That is one reason I always liked you Jesse.

Originally Posted by BruceG

Well then, we agree that we disagree, and yet we are agreeably disagreeing, agreed? That is one reason I always liked you Jesse.

LOL. That' right. I didn't say I was right, just that I disagreed. For all I knoe you're right—that's the beauty of this site. It's not about who's right, it's about who's polite.

[christkid777]

The scripture speaks of the work of Christ as an "eternal" work. It also says when the time was right Christ died for the ungodly. But Christ walked in power and did things which would open eyes even to this day. If the people could not be influenced by signs and wonders than the false prophet could not influence them either. People are just numb to men and women who claim to be of God but do not walk in the same power. If anyone of us could work the same kind of miracles as Christ and the apostles the whole world would set up and take notice. Modern mans outer covering of sophistication and knowledge covers the same wounded heart as when Christ was here before. His love and compassion would easily cut through and quicken the sincere heart. As before He would be here seeking His own and not the acceptance of the masses. The unbelievers would stand no more chance of salvation today as then.

[Amadeus]

The OP has in it the same problem that I see in much Christian fiction.

Unless you have the mind of God, knowing all things, the timing of all things,
and the purpose of all things, the one who proposes an alternative to God's Way, even in a comparitively minor detail, is bound to miss the mark. In major details, we would face a catastrophe, and it seems to me that many people already do. God has planned for all contingencies, but what man can do?

Believe it or not, man has caused most of his own problems, and all of his technology and logic has not so far been able to pull him out. If someone has a better plan than God, go ahead and speak up to save the world.

Our problem is not that God's plan has failed, but that we have not chosen the alternative that He has made available for us in every case!

Originally Posted by Brad

When Jesus originally turned up, there was limited knowledge about the world at that time, at least compared to today.

If it happened that He was born in the 1950's or 60's, then would He have had the same impact? Would where He was born also have an affect? Joseph Smith got a new religion off the ground in America in the 19th century and scientology has only been going since the 50's. How would Jesus fare in the here and now?

Greetings Brad,

Had Jesus began his teachings, presented his philosophy as to how one should live their lives for the betterment of humanity 10-20 years ago, I see the end result being the same and for the same reasons as before. Very few took that 'leap of faith' and followed him then, and very few would do it in this generation for the same reason. The reason is the control manmade religion has over its members. A catholic never jumps until the pope says jump. A mormon (no offense Jesse) never jumps until their great prophet says jump. A muslim never jumps until their Iman or whatever tells them to jump. The jews never jumped because Caiaphas refused to tell them to jump. There actually may be more in this day and age who would take that 'leap of faith' and jump on their own accord, but I seriously doubt it would have much of an impact on the social, political, and religious aspects of society. For some odd reason, too many people allow themselves to get caught up in following some mere mortal than following someone like Jesus, so things would stay basically the same.

That is my opinion.

P.S. If Jesus had begun his teachings 10-20 years ago,someone like **** Cheney would have had him arrested and killed. You never tell a war profiteer to love their enemies; BIG mistake.

[NotFinishedYet]

Creak, creak, creak......

Hmmm..... would Jesus have made a splash if he'd been born in the 50's or 60's? My first answer, of course, would be that God's timing would be perfect for when ever He decided to "beget" Jesus.

But let's think about this. If He was born in the 50's,Jesus would have been a second wave boomer, coming to age in the 70's during Viet Nam, the Civil Rights movement, Woman's movement, hippies, Jesus Freaks, SLA, Black Panthers, TV coverage of every major event at dinner time..... lotsa social movements, at least in the US. Oh, and let's not forget Madalyn Murray O'Hair starts the American Atheists. In Israel, wow... new nation, starting out to define themselves and their role politically and religiously in the world. If He started His ministry at that time, it could have been either a real standout ministry or totally lost among all the others. If he waited 'til he hit his 30's to start, well, that woulda been the 80's. Hmmm, what came out of the '80's. Reagan/Bush years, Iranian arms for hostages deal, Contra war in Nicaragua, Berlin Wall falls, disco, AIDS discovered, internet and cell phones just kicking off, Falkland Island "War", Tianamen Square and martial law declared by China in Tibet. The liberal in me says we certainly coulda used a redeemer that decade: disco alone. So whether born in the mideast at that time or elsewhere, His ministry could have stood out big time. However, looking at the events of the 80's, some how I think most would have still remained blind. What do you think, Brad?

creak, creak, creak