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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Marian Apparations....

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  #11  
Old 07-23-2020, 12:53 AM
Selene's Avatar
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
Greetings again Selene, That is an interesting speculation. Was Mary the only person raised? What about the Apostles? What about Mary Magdelene? Once you start, how do you understand the error of Hymenaeus and Philetus:
2 Timothy 2:16–18 (KJV): 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Kind regards
Trevor
As Drifter stated, Mary is the only human who was assumed into Heaven body and soul. Jesus assumed her into Heaven because she is His mother. The Commandment of God says, “Honor thy father and mother.” Jesus was the only person who was able to follow this commandment more than any human on Earth. He honored His mother. She was blessed among all women (Luke 1:28) and all generations will call her blessed (Luke 1:24). She was called the Mother of God (Luke 1:43). Unlike most children, Jesus was always obedient to His mother (Luke 2:51). Upon His death on the cross, Jesus made sure that His mother would be taken cared of (John 19:27). The commandment to honor His mother didn’t stop when He ascended into Heaven. When Mary’s life came to an end, Jesus didn’t abandoned His mother but continued to honor her as He had always done. Jesus was the only one who had the power to assume His mother into Heaven. There is no honor if He had allowed His mother’s body to rot in the earth. As the dutiful Son He had always been, He honored His mother even when her life came to an end by assuming her body and soul into Heaven.

There were some things that Jesus did that were not recorded in the Bible (see John 21:25). The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was one of those things He did, which was not written in the Bible. You can only find it in the Traditions of the Church, which the Apostle Paul told us to hold on to (see 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Last edited by Selene : 07-23-2020 at 01:44 AM.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2020, 06:34 AM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

Greetings again Selene,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selene View Post
As Drifter stated, Mary is the only human who was assumed into Heaven body and soul.
There were some things that Jesus did that were not recorded in the Bible. The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was one of those things He did, which was not written in the Bible. You can only find it in the Traditions of the Church, ....
In other words, it is mere conjecture.

Kind regards
Trevor
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  #13  
Old 07-23-2020, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

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Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
Greetings again Selene,In other words, it is mere conjecture.

Kind regards
Trevor
If it is your choice to label it conjecture, that is of your affair. Those people who have studied the facts of the matter believe otherwise. Those that believe in the apparations of the Blessed Virgin Mary and the miracles that are part of the revelations find that said events are extremely self explanatory. It would be worth your time to learn of these events and your life would be better off in doing so.

You have free will as does everyone else...what you do to expand your religious knowledge is totally up to you. Honestly, the Holy Spirit will guide you in your endeavor and hopefully you will find peace of mind after finding out more about the Blessed Virgin Mary and her messages.


Last edited by drifter10652 : 07-23-2020 at 12:20 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2020, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

@TrevorL not everyone who is a Christian (the majority of Christians) do not abide by the Bible alone nor believe every little thing must be in the Bible, indeed most Christians follow what the Church says as instructed.

Here is what the Orthodox believe and it is a bit different from Catholics

Quote:
Introduction

The Feast of the Dormition of Our Most Holy Lady, the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary is celebrated on August 15 each year. The Feast commemorates the repose (dormition and in the Greek kimisis) or "falling-asleep" of the Mother of Jesus Christ, our Lord. The Feast also commemorates the translation or assumption into heaven of the body of the Theotokos.
Biblical Story

The Holy Scriptures tell us that when our Lord was dying on the Cross, He saw His mother and His disciple John and said to the Virgin Mary, "Woman, behold your son!" and to John, "Behold your mother!" (John 19:25-27). From that hour, the Apostle took care of the Theotokos in his own home.
Along with the biblical reference in Acts 1:14 that confirms that the Virgin Mary was with the Holy Apostles on the day of Pentecost, the tradition of the Church holds that she remained in the home of the Apostle John in Jerusalem, continuing a ministry in word and deed.

At the time of her death, the disciples of our Lord who were preaching throughout the world returned to Jerusalem to see the Theotokos. Except for the Apostle Thomas, all of them including the Apostle Paul were gathered together at her bedside. At the moment of her death, Jesus Christ himself descended and carried her soul into heaven.

Following her repose, the body of the Theotokos was taken in procession and laid in a tomb near the Garden of Gethsemane. When the Apostle Thomas arrived three days after her repose and desired to see her body, the tomb was found to be empty. The bodily assumption of the Theotokos was confirmed by the message of an angel and by her appearance to the Apostles.
https://www.goarch.org/dormition
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  #15  
Old 07-23-2020, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
In other words, it is mere conjecture.
That is the same argument that a non-Christian would use against your Christian faith. Are you sure you want to use a faulty argument?
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  #16  
Old 07-24-2020, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

Greetings CatholicCrusader,
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
That is the same argument that a non-Christian would use against your Christian faith. Are you sure you want to use a faulty argument?
My answer to a non-Christian would be to appeal to the Scriptures, including some of my favourite Scriptures which record the words and writings of the Apostle Peter.

Some of these are:
John 21:15–17 (KJV): 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Acts 2:22–24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 3:19–21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

2 Peter 1:12–19 (KJV): 12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. 13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; 14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:


Not only would some of the above be good discussion between a true Christian and a non-Christian, a careful examination of the above will show the difference between the teachings and circumstances and environment of Peter and the present RCC and the supposed successors of Peter.

Kind regards
Trevor
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2020, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
Greetings CatholicCrusader, My answer to a non-Christian would be to appeal to the Scriptures.....
Why would you say that when they don't believe in the scriptures. Try again. Now you are deep in it with two faulty arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
Greetings drifter10652,How do you substantiate this, or prove this?
How do you "prove" that scriptures are inspired?
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Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 07-24-2020 at 06:07 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-24-2020, 06:32 AM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

Greetings again CatholicCrusader,
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Why would you say that when they don't believe in the scriptures. Try again. Now you are deep in it with two faulty arguments.
How do you "prove" that scriptures are inspired?
Each contact with a non-believer needs to be taken one step at a time, but prophecy that has been fulfilled is a good start. Some of these prophecies relate to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Luke 24:25-27. Others are those that relate to the coming Kingdom, and the return of the Jews to the Holy Land Ezekiel 38:8-12 is one indication that the return of Jesus is near at hand.

Kind regards
Trevor
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  #19  
Old 07-24-2020, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
Greetings again CatholicCrusader, Each contact with a non-believer needs to be taken one step at a time, but prophecy that has been fulfilled is a good start.......

I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,


Marian apparitions fulfill prophecy.





Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
Quote:
Why would you say that when they don't believe in the scriptures. Try again. Now you are deep in it with two faulty arguments.
Quote:
How do you "prove" that scriptures are inspired?
Greetings again CatholicCrusader, Each contact with a non-believer needs to be taken one step at a time, but prophecy that has been fulfilled is a good start. Some of these prophecies relate to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Luke 24:25-27. Others are those that relate to the coming Kingdom, and the return of the Jews to the Holy Land Ezekiel 38:8-12 is one indication that the return of Jesus is near at hand.

Kind regards
Trevor
Simply saying to an atheist that prophecies were fulfilled is not proof. A Muslim can "say" that Muhammad ascended into heaven. Will you believe him?

Try again.
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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II

Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 07-24-2020 at 06:56 AM.
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  #20  
Old 07-24-2020, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Marian Apparations....

In 1988, Karl Keating, founder of Catholic Answers, published his landmark book, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, which contained an important argument concerning the Catholic approach to proving the inspiration of the Bible:

Proving Inspiration

The Catholic method of proving the Bible to be inspired is this: The Bible is initially approached as any other ancient work. It is not, at first, presumed to be inspired. From textual criticism we are able to conclude that we have a text the accuracy of which is more certain than the accuracy of any other ancient work.

Next we take a look at what the Bible, considered merely as a history, tells us, focusing particularly on the New Testament, and more specifically the Gospels. We examine the account contained therein of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection.

Using what is in the Gospels themselves and what we find in extra-biblical writings from the early centuries, together with what we know of human nature (and what we can otherwise, from natural reason alone, know of divine nature), we conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be—God—or he was crazy. (The one thing we know he could not have been was merely a good man who was not God, since no merely good man would make the claims he made.)

We are able to eliminate the possibility of his being a madman not just from what he said but from what his followers did after his death. Many critics of the Gospel accounts of the resurrection claim that Christ did not truly rise, that his followers took his body from the tomb and then proclaimed him risen from the dead. According to these critics, the resurrection was nothing more than a hoax. Devising a hoax to glorify a friend and mentor is one thing, but you do not find people dying for a hoax, at least not one from which they derive no benefit. Certainly if Christ had not risen, his disciples would not have died horrible deaths affirming the reality and truth of the resurrection. The result of this line of reasoning is that we must conclude that Jesus indeed rose from the dead. Consequently, his claims concerning himself—including his claim to be God—have credibility. He meant what he said and did what he said he would do.

Further, Christ said he would found a Church. Both the Bible (still taken as merely a historical book, not yet as an inspired one) and other ancient works attest to the fact that Christ established a Church with the rudiments of what we see in the Catholic Church today—papacy, hierarchy, priesthood, sacraments, and teaching authority.

We have thus taken the material and purely historically concluded that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Because of his Resurrection we have reason to take seriously his claims concerning the Church, including its authority to teach in his name.

This Catholic Church tells us the Bible is inspired, and we can take the Church’s word for it precisely because the Church is infallible. Only after having been told by a properly constituted authority—that is, one established by God to assure us of the truth concerning matters of faith—that the Bible is inspired can we reasonably begin to use it as an inspired book.

A Spiral Argument

Note that this is not a circular argument. We are not basing the inspiration of the Bible on the Church’s infallibility and the Church’s infallibility on the word of an inspired Bible. That indeed would be a circular argument! What we have is really a spiral argument. On the first level we argue to the reliability of the Bible insofar as it is history. From that we conclude that an infallible Church was founded. And then we take the word of that infallible Church that the Bible is inspired. This is not a circular argument because the final conclusion (the Bible is inspired) is not simply a restatement of its initial finding (the Bible is historically reliable), and its initial finding (the Bible is historically reliable) is in no way based on the final conclusion (the Bible is inspired). What we have demonstrated is that without the existence of the Church, we could never know whether the Bible is inspired.

The advantages of the Catholic approach are two: First, the inspiration is really proved, not just “felt.” Second, the main fact behind the proof—the reality of an infallible, teaching Church—leads one naturally to an answer to the problem that troubled the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:30-31): How is one to know which interpretations are correct? The same Church that authenticates the Bible, that attests to its inspiration, is the authority established by Christ to interpret his word.
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- Saint Pope John Paul II
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