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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

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  #1  
Old 03-09-2018, 04:24 AM
pryz's Avatar
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Default Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

I have come to the conclusion that ailing conditions of the body can come on us for a multitude of reasons.

Last fall around September I had some discomfort with my lower-leg, then the other leg started acting up with noticeable swelling which turned out to be tendon related. The medical profession couldn’t quite put their finger on the condition nor the cause. I got another opinion when the mild recovery I thought was happening was now worsening upon both my ankles. The Doctor looked at the ankles and found she couldn’t inspect because as she put it “Your ankles are deformed!

She ordered an immediate (days) MRI scan and sent me off to someone more qualified, the Podiatrist which led to the administering of meds, bandages and snug fitting high-top boots to grant support. The scan results showed him I nearly severed a tendon that stretches from the lower inside calf and wraps under the ankle bone. The other leg developed same condition but not nearly as bad to which he had no explanation.

After some thought standing there in front of the MRI results, asked the Doctor if my work could have anything to do with it, saying, “For the last ten-yrs several times a day, I would step on scattered pneumatic lines on the work-area floor as I attempted to spray the parts we produced. When I do, I can feel my foot rock slightly from one side to the other. Could this be a factor resulting in my condition?” “My yes!”, he said. Something so simple yet fairly un-noticeable.

As previously stated, reasons for alterations to our health are as numerous as any of us can imagine, yet, there in the word stands that timeless invitation:
Is anyone among you sick?
Then he must call for the elders
of the church and they are to
pray over him, anointing him
with oil in the name of the Lord;


James 5:14
In my above case, I could just as well pray for the medical profession as God did provide so much to treat my condition, and thank God for it. But what if no one is able to detect from a scan, swelling or pain what may feel insignificant to even bother with yet might just incapacitate a person from his or her occupation if they continue “another 3-months” as was my case?

It is said of Romans 7:24 that “The body of this death” is therefore the same as “the body of sin” in chap. Romans 6:6 : it is the body which, as the instrument if not the seat of sin, is involved in its doom." - Expositor’s Greek

Should we be convinced to avail the prayer for lesser ailments as imperative?

.
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2018, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

While I do not think that James 5:14 was the go-to verse here, I do agree that prayer helps. Many doctors agree that prayer helps, although they won't often say it has anything to do with God.

On the other hand, as a Catholic I would be remiss if I did not point out that suffering is redemptive. It is very Christian to embrace your suffering and offer them to God for the salvation of souls.

You can do both: Pray for the ease of suffering if it be God's will, and yet also offer them to God for the salvation of souls.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives us the framework to understand the theological foundation of the practice of “offering it up.”

The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the “one mediator between God and men” [1 Timothy 2:5]. But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, “the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery” is offered to all men (618).

This is the mystery of redemptive suffering. Christ makes us — members of his Mystical Body — participants in that redemptive self-offering of Christ. Paul left the Church a great understanding of just what that means when he said:

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church (Colossians 1:24).

St. John Paul II summed it up:

In bringing about the Redemption through suffering, Christ has also raised human suffering to the level of the Redemption. Thus each man, in his suffering, can also become a sharer in the redemptive suffering of Christ (Salvifici Doloris, 19).
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
While I do not think that James 5:14 was the go-to verse here, I do agree that prayer helps. Many doctors agree that prayer helps, although they won't often say it has anything to do with God.

On the other hand, as a Catholic I would be remiss if I did not point out that suffering is redemptive. It is very Christian to embrace your suffering and offer them to God for the salvation of souls.

You can do both: Pray for the ease of suffering if it be God's will, and yet also offer them to God for the salvation of souls.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives us the framework to understand the theological foundation of the practice of “offering it up.”

The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the “one mediator between God and men” [1 Timothy 2:5]. But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, “the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery” is offered to all men (618).

This is the mystery of redemptive suffering. Christ makes us — members of his Mystical Body — participants in that redemptive self-offering of Christ. Paul left the Church a great understanding of just what that means when he said:

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church (Colossians 1:24).

St. John Paul II summed it up:

In bringing about the Redemption through suffering, Christ has also raised human suffering to the level of the Redemption. Thus each man, in his suffering, can also become a sharer in the redemptive suffering of Christ (Salvifici Doloris, 19).
To answer (highlighted) then to that suffering or the resistance to it by the will of God, there is seen some room here. Which should have the preeminent role between these,
But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself

From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

...................................

Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.

For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord the church


(Acts 20:24, Galatians 6:17, 3 John 1:2, Ephesians 5:29)
If perils of this life elevate outside the benefit of others, then care of ourselves should also elevate? Is that close?

.
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
To answer (highlighted) then to that suffering or the resistance to it by the will of God, there is seen some room here. Which should have the preeminent role between these,
But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself

From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

...................................

Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.

For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord the church


(Acts 20:24, Galatians 6:17, 3 John 1:2, Ephesians 5:29)
If perils of this life elevate outside the benefit of others, then care of ourselves should also elevate? Is that close?

.
IF I understand your question correctly, it would be a better more noble thing to do to suffer and offer the sufferings to God.

This gets very complicated. God probably does not want us to suffer and the sufferings of people, especially innocents and children, probably grieves him. Yet he does not interfere in the Natural Law (usually) and therefore he must allow suffering to happen. How we deal with it then becomes the important thing.

Of course, God is also forgiving and understanding and surely forgives those who can't deal with it very well. (I can't even deal with the dentist.)

It is a many-faceted issue.
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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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Old 03-11-2018, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

Hello PRYZ and its very good to meet you, funny that for years we crossed paths, but never introduced, here we are. Very good to see you active, I am but a spot here and there now, praying for a turn in new direction. Let us hope your legs gain fullness again.

and, hello CC
RE: both, It should be pointed out, I was born and raised a Catholic, not until I was full adult did I leave the church and am now AG, but fully grasp what CC is saying in this point. My experience from a child and later was, my mother gathering all 5, and heading to confession which was held at our church on Saturdays, usually ending about 6 pm. It was taught to us, after confessing our sins and serving penance, we were able to take communion after confirmation at Sunday service, usually service was held around 11: am. What we were also taught is that we were to fast from confession until after communion. This was to show understanding of Jesus suffrage, willingness to suffer, endure and bring more spirituality in prayer and celebration. From what I am told in recent years by a local Priest, that is no longer practiced, but even today as an AG I still practice no food/fasting before service.

1. The way I see the OP. you want to explore whether we should pray for healing of minor ailments or self inflicted wounds...
and
2. You are the belief that sickness, injury or suffering has many reasons, and to not get stuck on misunderstood interpretations claiming sin is the only cause.

This subject is interesting to me, in that while being fully engulfed in my church with teaching and ministry, Having incredible Spiritual connections with God, and also in confidence of belief in miraculous healing of which I have witnessed and experienced, that I personally would become afflicted with a disease so rare, literally only thousand's, not ten thousands ect. in the world are known have this type although it has been written about in medical journals for a couple hundred years or more.

A short answer to all these including CC's remarks can found in James, taking the chapter 5 as a whole . Below are some key scriptures with what I feel is the basic understanding of them.

Quote:
James chap 5-10, Take, my brethren, the [Old Testament] prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
Look at what kind of suffering the prophets of Old met but willingly served God for example.
11, Behold, we count them happy [blessed] which endure. Ye... heard of the patience of Job, and ... saw the end of the Lord; that the Lord is extremely compassionate, and of tender mercy.
Our Father God looks out for those that endure, we should count them as Blessed. Remember how Job endured , never lost faith, He doubled all Job had lost. and Jesus showed he was compassionate and mercyfull,(Job ch:1 6-12, 2 1-7, 42-10 )
12, But before all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by the heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; in order that not ye fall under condemnation.
Don't get stuck listening to mans traditions, suggestions which leads to confusion. God says the way it is or will be, yes or no, trust in him.
13, Is some one among you suffering evil ? let him pray. Is any merry ? let him sing psalms.
If you are happy, show it, If you are heart hardened, ask or prayer, if you meet people down, pray for them with joyous messages.
14, Is some one sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, having anointed him with oil in the name of the Lord:
If someone is sick, weak, they must ask for Elders of the church to pray and anoint with oil all in the name of Jesus Christ.
15, And the prayer [or vow] of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
The weary or worn out can be redeemed by prayers that confirm faith. (Psalm 23, 25, ect)
16, Confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. A prayer of a just man energized by the Spirit is strong for much.
Prayer from a true believer, sharing prayer and confessing your sins, carry's much weight with God
17, Elijah was a man of like feelings as we are, and he prayed with prayer that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth ... three years and six months.
Eliijah was just a common man but knew the prophecy and prayed with belief and strength, God is who preforms these things often through man.
18, And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
Again, earnest prayer, trusting God to do the things promised And you will receive the fruit of the vine.
A small witness as an example of how God works. usually, we can not see Gods purpose when we become engulfed in turmoil, it is not until the storm calms that we can look back and see the new direction God has put us on.

Now unlike before, I stand filled with the Holy Spirit as witness to top experts in the field of medicine, documenting miraculous healing's and unshaken belief. Brain tumors disappear, failing heart miraculously healed, failing lungs healed, knees requiring surgery, all and more miraculously healed.. All thanks be to God.

The thing about this, in every case, these are the people, Dr's who teach the teachers in the Medical University, they shrug their shoulders not knowing how these thing's suddenly appear, are documented with x-rays, CT scans, MRI's, notes etc, each occasion they have to say something like, sorry no cure, and yet, months later while checking progression, these same incurable things, are gone. I smile at their astonishment now, and we always end up in a discussion of God, my firm belief in healing, some feeling necessary to confess their short comings and ask for prayer.

My point is, although I am no longer able to do Gods work in the previous ministry or teach, I am still spreading Gods word to those who otherwise never get more than a mention.. God is Great!
So in that regard, it is how we address our new found life serving.

Jesus, while teaching the disciples how to pray, made it clear, when we pray, not if we pray, to pray to our Father in Heaven that his will be done on earth as in heaven..

Quote:
Luke 11:2-4 (KJV)
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
so yes, it is my firm belief, we should always pray, oblige when asked, adding these things to our communication with God, as his will be done.

And clearly, sickness, disease can be caused from more than sin.. the suffering is a matter of how it is interpreted.

Psalm 73:26 (KJV)
26 My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.

Dan

Luke 5:21-26, Mark 2:8-11, John 9:1-5, John 11:4, Philippians 1:9-11

Last edited by iamdan : 03-11-2018 at 11:21 AM. Reason: added Let us hope your legs gain fullness again.
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Old 03-11-2018, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

Interesting to me too Dan, not so much to the point of seeking 'after a sign', but rather the One whom counts the hair knows when these should transpire for His own, and thanks for the wish for my health, Amen! Yours and everyone else here too!!

Been rolling this around to meditate on this, , as CC said "complicated" and now I wonder CC if the simplicity isn't being tried? Yes, we should "always" pray. Can we appropriate certain contented travail? Sometimes I wonder if to truly bring forth our best version of "always" is because our communion with Him hasn't quite fulfilled that patience, that dying to increase the fruit, that rich absorption be dispersed publicly (2-or-more) as well as private. May have to put something worthwhile together as far as I am concerned.

.
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Old 03-12-2018, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
Interesting to me too Dan, not so much to the point of seeking 'after a sign', but rather the One whom counts the hair knows when these should transpire for His own, and thanks for the wish for my health, Amen! Yours and everyone else here too!!

Been rolling this around to meditate on this, , as CC said "complicated" and now I wonder CC if the simplicity isn't being tried? Yes, we should "always" pray. Can we appropriate certain contented travail? Sometimes I wonder if to truly bring forth our best version of "always" is because our communion with Him hasn't quite fulfilled that patience, that dying to increase the fruit, that rich absorption be dispersed publicly (2-or-more) as well as private. May have to put something worthwhile together as far as I am concerned.

.
Have you ever watched the song of Bernadette? Before the died she became a nun and walked with a slight limp. The mother superior thought she was trying to get attention. In fact, she was suffering from horrible pain and did her best to not let it show. True story


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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

Amazing that mother superior had such poor discernment...
good clip...
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

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Originally Posted by iamdan View Post
Amazing that mother superior had such poor discernment...
good clip...
She was old school. Its funny how as times change, the emphasis on how to practice different aspects of the faith seems to swing too far in one way or the other. They use to be too strict, and now they are too loose.
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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: Wellness, to Pray or Not to Pray?

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Have you ever watched the song of Bernadette? Before the died she became a nun and walked with a slight limp. The mother superior thought she was trying to get attention. In fact, she was suffering from horrible pain and did her best to not let it show. True story
I see. No, I don’t believe I have seen that one but will make it a priority to do so. Wow, did you see the critical response? If Wikipedia's edits stand true:
The film was a great success both critically and financially. The Song of Bernadette won four Oscars in the 1943 Academy Awards:

Best Actress in a Leading Role - Jennifer Jones
Best Art Direction-Interior Decoration, Black-and-White - James Basevi, William S. Darling, and Thomas Little
Best Cinematography, Black-and-White
Best Music, Scoring of a Dramatic or Comedy Picture

In addition, the film was nominated for a further eight categories:

Best Actor in a Supporting Role - Charles Bickford
Best Actress in a Supporting Role - Gladys Cooper
Best Actress in a Supporting Role - Anne Revere
Best Director
Best Film Editing
Best Picture
Best Sound, Recording - E. H. Hansen
Best Writing, Screenplay

In the first Golden Globe Awards in 1944, the film won three awards:

Best Director – Motion Picture
Best Motion Picture – Drama
Best Motion Picture Actress - Jennifer Jones

Also, the film is recognized by American Film Institute in these lists:

2005: AFI's 100 Years of Film Scores – Nominated
2006: AFI's 100 Years...100 Cheers – Nominated

Locarno International Film Festival - Best Actress
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