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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Lucifer name misunderstood?

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Old 03-08-2018, 09:50 AM
elijah23's Avatar
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Default Lucifer name misunderstood?

Hey guy's im new here.

Im making this post about Ezekiel 28. The story of Lucifer i was told growing up as a christian, i found is not in the bible at least not as clean, cut and dry as it was told to me. Honestly, it never made sense to me.

And then i discovered that the word Lucifer in one of the only stories where it is mentioned is referring to a Man, the king of Tyre to be specific. who is later also said to be an angel?

on top of that the word Lucifer in the english is not so much a name as it is a title, "the morning and the evening star" would be the actual translation. so then what does lucifer really mean? who is lucifer really?

At one point Jesus refers to himself as Lucifer, "the Morning and the Evening star"


How could this King of Tyre, been both a man AND a covering cherub?

Also this Man is said to definitely NOT be a God while he claims to be.

who could this person be?

This angel is said to have been perfect in all his ways.

who else can this be said of beside jesus? perfect in all their ways? no one is perfect except for jesus, so how can this person be perfect in all their ways yet at the same time be a corruptible man?

This man was perfect until iniquity was found in him.


It is all really confusing, the angel is also said to have been in eden.

I have racked my brain on this for a long time and there is only one possible explanation that i see.

the only explanation is that the word and name Lucifer has been misunderstood to be something that it is not.

it must be that the true identity of Lucifer can only be as jesus himself said in Rev 22:16

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and Lucifer


In Ezekiel 28 God is Giving a word against the King of Tyre a mortal man who claims to be a God

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

This confused me for a long time too because it says this man claims to be God but is not God and he is condemned for this how can he be jesus?

Ezekiel 28:7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

Because this man claims to be God, God will send terrible foreign nations to destroy this man.

this seems to parallel exactly what happened to jesus. jesus claimed to be God and then his wisdom and beauty were defiled.

Ezekiel 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

this verse seems to parallel this moment in the Gospels

Mark 15:34
At the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

Ezekiel 28:15 goes onto say Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

This also parallels jesus's story who is also said to have been perfect until he took on sin on the cross.

1 peter 2:24 says Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree.

Isaiah 53:12 says

and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


2 Corinthians 5:21 Goes on to say

God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf

This seems to fit the story of Lucifer pretty well so far.

both were men who claimed to be God, both were perfect until iniquity was found in them. Both were killed and defiled in the hands of foreign nations

the only part that doesnt fit is the part is Lucifer not being a God in Ezekiel.

well this can be reconciled either once jesus was reconciled among the sinners, he ceased to be a God or the only other alternative is that jesus is not a God like the muslims say.

thoughts please
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Lucifer name misunderstood?

Isaiah 14:12-20 (KJV)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Lucifer name misunderstood?

Job 38:5-7 (KJV)
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Lucifer name misunderstood?

When Hitler was younger, he was not evil. Why is it you think Lucifer was always evil or should have been always evil?
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Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Lucifer name misunderstood?

Lucifer could not have ALWAYS been evil.
Man was in a state of grace - sinless - without sin before his first sin.
Likewise, Lucifer, who is also a created being, had his time of innocence after his creation before he chose to defy God.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Lucifer name misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Lucifer could not have ALWAYS been evil.
Man was in a state of grace - sinless - without sin before his first sin.
Likewise, Lucifer, who is also a created being, had his time of innocence after his creation before he chose to defy God.

Agreed. All created beings (including satan) started as good/innocent. Unfortunately, whenever there is a will available to us other than God's, there is the potential for evil... if there was not this "other option" we would all be slaves and forced to love God... instead, He wants us to freely choose Him.

People might ask, how can someone who knows God face to face (like the angels) could ever choose to do another will other than Gods' -- the answer to that MUST be that evil is purposely and greatly appealing (atleast the temptation part).., otherwise, NO ONE would ever choose it --- then you're back to not having a real choice (we'd all be robots)... If us humans, for example, could see sin as it truly is (death, damnation, eternal torment), then no one would ever choose it. Instead, evil MUST have a very strong appeal (drugs, love of money, lusty sex, etc) - all look great on the outside but all destroy us.

**can you imagine being in Heaven before the fall of the angels (with future knowledge like God)... and seeing how beautiful and loving Lucifer was before pride took over... talking to him and seeing his innocence - yet knowing what he was to become. Glad I'm not God.
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