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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > General Discussions  > Judgement Day

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  #1  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:06 AM
pryz's Avatar
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Default Judgement Day

What is a realistic picture of that awesome time when all flesh bows before the King of kings? One thing I find especially curious is the culmination of scripture pointing to eminent bliss or dreadfulness for what some will have to face. This we know God is not willing for any to come to. Yet, even in their fear of that hour will still try to shift common responsibility (justify unacceptable conduct) to parlay with the Lord that they should have assumed while they had the opportunity in their lifetimes.

This final appeal, to me speaks as having no fear of God even while it is barreling down on them. They have become used to it and convinced themselves as truth. The mentality to reason fault is still intact, but the true appeal for mercy was obviously, recklessly spent, to justify unacceptable conduct.
The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we you hungry, or thirsty or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto you?

But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.


(Joel 2:31, Matthew 25:44, Matthew 12:36, Matthew 16:27)
How wonderful to me the "righteous" are baffled and have a firm hold on that responsibility as though to say,
Don't you realize Lord how badly we missed it?
Well I'm sure I am missing something critical. Do feel free to share any thoughts! Thanks!

.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

I get a sense of condition from St John, a very righteous man. A disciple of Christ:

Johnís Vision of Christ
9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 On the Lordís Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet ----------------

------------ When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ďDo not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.


I am reminded of what St John says here:

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

When we see fear mentioned in both sets of scriptures, it brings home to my soul, if St John who loved Christ, hadn't the measure of perfect love that he spoke about, then how will we behave when we are faced with this vision of Christ as he did. On the day of judgement.

St John had a measure of fear. He wasn't perfected to the ideal he spoke about being perfect love. St John expected an amount of punishment.

because fear has to do with punishment.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:32 AM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post

St John had a measure of fear. He wasn't perfected to the ideal he spoke about being perfect love. St John expected an amount of punishment.

because fear has to do with punishment.
Could it also be that St. John is overcame by awe or reverential fear ? Take for example somebody is invited to a palace or see a dignitary could that somebody be fearful not because of punishment but by the awesomeness of the situation.

John used to be with Jesus in His humanity and then when he saw Jesus as His majesty or as God and in His glory probably St. John is in awe.Daniel, Paul and Moses experienced similar situation. Also Peter in the mount of transfiguration.

ped
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
Could it also be that St. John is overcame by awe or reverential fear ? Take for example somebody is invited to a palace or see a dignitary could that somebody be fearful not because of punishment but by the awesomeness of the situation.

John used to be with Jesus in His humanity and then when he saw Jesus as His majesty or as God and in His glory probably St. John is in awe.Daniel, Paul and Moses experienced similar situation. Also Peter in the mount of transfiguration.

ped
Personally, imho, I think it goes back to the garden of Eden. A very subliminal thing that is in the blood.
But we can assert many things.

Quick definitions from Macmillan (awe)
American English Definition British English Definition
noun
▸a feeling of great respect and admiration, often combined with fear


We may have to consider the entire life of John and not just from the time of him meeting Jesus.
Every aspect of our entire lives are recorded in our genome.

I know I won't be jumping for joy.


I sincerely apologise for the grief I cause you, divine Spirit of the Lord.

Last edited by Soulheart3 : 01-13-2018 at 08:57 PM. Reason: Deleted trashing others on the site
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  #5  
Old 01-13-2018, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

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Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
Personally, imho, I think it goes back to the garden of Eden. A very subliminal thing that is in the blood.
But we can assert many things.

Quick definitions from Macmillan (awe)
American English Definition British English Definition
noun
▸a feeling of great respect and admiration, often combined with fear


We may have to consider the entire life of John and not just from the time of him meeting Jesus.
Every aspect of our entire lives are recorded in our genome.

I know I won't be jumping for joy.


I sincerely apologise for the grief I cause you, divine Spirit of the Lord.
Thomas doubted, Peter after claiming to defend Jesus was told by Jesus that he will deny Jesus thrice even before the rooster crows . I did my own share of failing yet Jesus continued to love us even while we are yet sinners Jesus died for us.

Cinder i am not sure if you have children or not, but how will you feel if after you've forgiven a child or children, your child continues to feel punishment ?

But if you want to deal with your situation your own way or as you see fit then i will gently give you space.

ped

Last edited by Soulheart3 : 01-13-2018 at 08:58 PM. Reason: deleted CinderAsh's bashing of others on the site
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  #6  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

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Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
Thomas doubted, Peter after claiming to defend Jesus was told by Jesus that he will deny Jesus thrice even before the rooster crows . I did my own share of failing yet Jesus continued to love us even while we are yet sinners Jesus died for us.
I'm not sure how that relates to my answer, ped.
I'm not sure how it relates to John falling at the feet of Jesus as though dead, and Jesus saying don't be afraid.
I think I get you relating to the perfect love of Jesus but not addressing John's fear.

Quote:
Cinder i am not sure if you have children or not,
I do have children ped. I never gave my children any reason to fear me.

Quote:
but how will you feel if after you've forgiven a child or children, your child continues to feel punishment ?
That is a good point, ped. A very good point. I can see you have deeply and soulfully thought about it. You're right, a child wouldn't feel as if he/she is going to be punished. The child would jump into your arms and hugs all round.

St John didn't rush over and smile and act with extreme glee at being saved when he came face to face with Jesus like a child would to his/her loving parent. On the contrary, John fell at His feet as though dead.

I wouldn't suggest John felt like he was going to be punished. You might think that. It seems you do but I didn't suggest that.

John Said that.

because fear has to do with punishment.

Those were the Apostle, St John's words, not mine.

I was trying to figure out why John fell at the feet of Jesus as though dead and why Jesus, by HIS words, suggested John was afraid.

I did suggest his entire life, his entire genome, and the blood line of Adam having an influence on a subliminal level to John's behaviour.

I don't know what the exact language translation would be but Jesus didn't say, "Don't be in awe of me" but I concede that could be true. Fear out of awe.

Again, however, John didn't react how you seem to suggest a child would act.
Did your children fall at your feet as though dead when you forgave them, ped?
How did your children react, ped?

Jesus is perfect love. As you know. Jesus drives out fear. Evident when he put his hand on St John's shoulder. When he healed, drove out demons and raised the dead, fear was driven out and replaced with perfect love.
Our love isn't perfect. St John's love isn't perfect in comparison to Jesus. St John's love is far more loving than what I can give.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

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Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
I'm not sure how that relates to my answer, ped.
I'm not sure how it relates to John falling at the feet of Jesus as though dead, and Jesus saying don't be afraid.
I think I get you relating to the perfect love of Jesus but not addressing John's fear.



I do have children ped. I never gave my children any reason to fear me.



That is a good point, ped. A very good point. I can see you have deeply and soulfully thought about it. You're right, a child wouldn't feel as if he/she is going to be punished. The child would jump into your arms and hugs all round.

St John didn't rush over and smile and act with extreme glee at being saved when he came face to face with Jesus like a child would to his/her loving parent. On the contrary, John fell at His feet as though dead.

I wouldn't suggest John felt like he was going to be punished. You might think that. It seems you do but I didn't suggest that.

John Said that.

because fear has to do with punishment.

Those were the Apostle, St John's words, not mine.

I was trying to figure out why John fell at the feet of Jesus as though dead and why Jesus, by HIS words, suggested John was afraid.

I did suggest his entire life, his entire genome, and the blood line of Adam having an influence on a subliminal level to John's behaviour.

I don't know what the exact language translation would be but Jesus didn't say, "Don't be in awe of me" but I concede that could be true. Fear out of awe.

Again, however, John didn't react how you seem to suggest a child would act.
Did your children fall at your feet as though dead when you forgave them, ped?
How did your children react, ped?

Jesus is perfect love. As you know. Jesus drives out fear. Evident when he put his hand on St John's shoulder. When he healed, drove out demons and raised the dead, fear was driven out and replaced with perfect love.
Our love isn't perfect. St John's love isn't perfect in comparison to Jesus. St John's love is far more loving than what I can give.
Let's see let's explore what causes someone to fear or be afraid.

Yes one is fear of punishment. Another could be a feeling of inadequacy or not making the grade. Another could be a reaction to unknown or unfamiliar situation. Another is losing someone you love.

How about falling as dead or weak ? again this could be fear of punishment , fear of rejection, or reaction to someone greater or better or feeling of unworthiness, feeling of shame.

Let me insert another one how about a reaction because of the fallen state. Like when Adam and Eve sinned. How about fear of being unforgiveable or unforgiven.

Perhaps the answer will come from more deeper relationship with God .

ped
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2018, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

More thoughts on 1 John 4:18 "fear has to do with punishment "from NIV other translation says fear involves torment. NKJV. (by the way, It did not quite sink in with me yet)

I will probably need to think about this more meanwhile i hope i am not too confident that i will not have to go to judgment because God/ Jesus has already forgiven me.

I hope we get true forgiveness based on true interpretation of the word of God.

ped
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
Let's see let's explore what causes someone to fear or be afraid.

Let me insert another one how about a reaction because of the fallen state. Like when Adam and Eve sinned.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with that one, ped.
A high probability although we can't know for sure.
We would have to be in John's footsteps.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Judgement Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
More thoughts on 1 John 4:18 "fear has to do with punishment "from NIV other translation says fear involves torment. NKJV. (by the way, It did not quite sink in with me yet)

I will probably need to think about this more meanwhile i hope i am not too confident that i will not have to go to judgment because God/ Jesus has already forgiven me.

I hope we get true forgiveness based on true interpretation of the word of God.

ped
Another good point, ped.
We can't know about John for sure of why he fell at the feet of Jesus and why Jesus would say don't be afraid but the matter is that John was afraid.
We are sure that John was forgiven and given a divine and righteous place in heaven. We know that.
There are enough conclusions in scripture to say we are forgiven and there is much mention of us having hope for this.

However, John was afraid for some reason.
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