True2Ourselves Forums - General Discussions http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum en Mon, 06 Sep 2010 22:20:28 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/images/misc/rss.jpg True2Ourselves Forums - General Discussions http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum A Discusion of the Sabbath Day http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5153-discusion-sabbath-day.html Mon, 06 Sep 2010 21:00:28 GMT What is the "Sabbath"?

Some of us observe a Saturday Sabbath, and some observe Sunday. But, what exactly IS the Sabbath?

What was God's intent in declaring the Sabbath day holy?

What do we, as individuals, do to "keep" the Sabbath?

How do our individual churches advise us on "keeping" either our Saturday or our Sunday?

What is acceptable activity and what isn't? Who makes this determination?

Is "Sabbath-keeping" a blessing or curse?

Is "Sabbath-keeping" a sign of our special relationship with God?

The SDA church states:

Quote:
The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in god's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people.
(from In His Steps, Ministerial Assoc., Gen. Conference of SDA's, copyright 1996)

Do you agree or disagree with the above statements, and why?


* * * * * * * * *

Some Sabbath verses, for reflection:

Genesis 2:1-3 (New King James Version)

Genesis 2

1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.




Exodus 20:8-11 (New King James Version)

8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.




Deuteronomy 5:12-15 (New King James Version)

12 ‘ Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.





Exodus 31:13-17 (New King James Version)

13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”




Ezekiel 20:12 (New King James Version)

12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.




Ezekiel 20:19-20 (New King James Version)

19 I am the LORD your God: Walk in My statutes, keep My judgments, and do them; 20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.’ ]]> General Discussions Gentlewind http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5153-discusion-sabbath-day.html Written in Stone http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5152-written-stone.html Mon, 06 Sep 2010 19:52:05 GMT Should Christians today be committed to strict adherence to all of the Ten Commandments?

Are the Ten Commandments a "law" we are still under?

Is it even possible to perfectly obey all ten? ]]> General Discussions Gentlewind http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5152-written-stone.html Romans 7- Blessing or Curse? http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5147-romans-7-blessing-curse.html Mon, 06 Sep 2010 13:49:32 GMT This was written in response to another post, but I felt led to share it here in the hopes it might bless all hearts

The whole of Romans 7 is worthy of a post all its own, because I believe it is the most misunderstood chapter in the Bible.

In it, Paul describes a man bound under the exterior written commandments of the law, not the interior workings of spirit if God within us by grace through faith. Indeed, in the first verse of chapter 7, he prefaces the remarks he is about to make with this verse:

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?"

Romans 7:1

He has previously just informed us that there are important truths we must know, that we are dead to sin, dead to the old man, dead to the flesh in Romans 6, and in Romans 7, he is now explaining the magnitude of that blessing. If we are dead we are freed from the law. That is the only way to get out from its grip of demands.

Where does the strength of sin come from? The law. Where there is no law, there is no sin. Praise God. A new way has been made for us- faith in His promises.

Romans 7 is not Paul's testimony as a Christian, for indeed, if it were, then it makes a mockery of his statement that he can do all things thru Christ who strengthens us.

I encourage all saints to read chapters 6-8 aloud and listen to the context of what Paul is telling us. He sums it up perfectly in Romans 8:

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh."

Romans 8:8-12

May God open our eyes to see the truth and expose the continual lies of satan? We do not owe the flesh anything.

How satan has twisted the scriptures and soothed us into thinking "Well, if Paul could not quit sinning, who am I to think I can stop?" For if we bite on this,snf believe it is true, it makes our fight against sin, our fulfillment of God's will for us to be Holy, an impossibility and undercuts our attempts to go in and possess the land of rest

We are not two natures. We do not have a black dog and a white one battling for supremecy. We are commanded to reckon the black dog as DEAD, for this is the pathway of faith that leads to liberty, being saved to the uttermost. It is the way, the only way, to give the white dog that we all are, life.

May God open up eyes to see the amazing promises of God, that it is no longer we that live, but Christ who lives in us, through us. We are new creatures in Christ, and the power satan had on us through the law has been forever broken. Old things are passed away and we are now light in the Lord. It is only by believing this that we can then obey the following scripture "Walk as children of light."

It is only as we grab hold of these amazing promises by faith that we find that sin is sure to be defeated, that when temptations come, we can find the way of escape every time, as we have been promised.

This is the shield of faith that quenches ALL the fiery darts of the wicked one, that we are dead, and our life is hid with Christ in God.

May faith come alive in our hearts once again, and may we, like Abraham, believe that what God has promised us, He is able also to perform. Amen. ]]> General Discussions Gideon http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5147-romans-7-blessing-curse.html Sinning Christians Wont Enter The Kingdom Of Heaven http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5142-sinning-christians-wont-enter-kingdom-heaven.html Sun, 05 Sep 2010 05:04:53 GMT Do you imagine he will forgive your druken feasts while you are still sittting at the gluttons table?! Shall he forgive your profanity when your tongue is still quivering with a curse?! Do you realy think that God will forgive your daily sins... when you repeat them agains and again... wilfully plunging into the mire? He is willing to wash thee.. but not for the sake of giveing you a license to plunge into the mud over and again. Well" I hear somone say, "I do feel that such a change has taken place in me." I am glad to hear it, my dear sir. But I must ask you a further question. Because of divine transformation is not merely an outward act....but is a transformation of the inner soul as well; the new man (born of God) not only does no want to sin outwardly as he used to.. but he no longer wants to sin and he used to. The flesh pots of Egypt somtimes send up a sweet smell in his nostrils, and when he passes by another man's house, where the leek and garlic and onion are streaming int the air, he half wishes to go back to his Egyptian bodage to be sure. But in a moment he checks himself saying, "No, no. The heavenly manna is better than this; the water that flows out of the rock is sweeter than the waters of the Nile, and I cannot turn back to my old slavery under my old tyrant" There may be temptations. Nay THERE WILL BE TEMPTATIONS. But the soul of the new creation rejects them...and agonizes to do everything possible to cast them out! His very heart longs to be free from every sin. And if he could be perfectly righteous he would. There is not one sin he would spare....even if he was assured of the pardon in advance. If you want to give him pleasure, the old ways are not the things to bring before him. To participate in those would only bring him pain and regret now. Because it is not merely his customs and habits that have changed. Its his NATURE that has changed! You have not put new leaves on the tree. But there is a new root ot and no merely new branches but a new trunk too with new sap. And there will be new fruit as the result of the newness. A glorious transformation has been wrought by gracious God! Repentance has become so real and complete that the man is NOT the man he used to be...He is a new CREATION in Christ Jesus! If you are renewed by grace and were to meet your old self again, I am sure you would be very anxious to get out of his company! You would say,"Im sorry, sir, but I cannot spend time with the likes of somone who does what you do." To which your old self might say: "why? You used to swear!?" "Well I cannot now!"..... "Well But" says he "you and I are very close companions." "Yes I know we are. And I wish we were not. You are a great deal of trouble to me, every day. In fact, I wish I could get rid of you forever!" "But", says your old self, "you used to drink quite a bit." "Yes I know. I know thou did, old self. Thou coudst sing a bar song as merrily as anyone! In fact you were the ring leader in all sorts of vice! But I am no relative of thine now. Thou are of the OLD Adam and I am of the NEW adam. Thou art of thy father the devil. But I have another- my Father who is in heaven." I tell you. bretheren, there is no man in the world you will hate as much as your old self, and there will be nothing you will so much long to get rid of, as that old man who once was draggin thee down to hell.... And who will try his hand at it everday you live, and who will accomplish it yet, unless that divine grace that justifies you, also santifies you!!" Charles Spurgeon]]> Repentance is a requirement and sign of true faith, if we have not repentance we also have not saving faith.

I like what Charles Spurgeon had to say in a sermon:

"Tell me not oh deceptive business man that you have repented and turned to Christ when lying practices still fill your business.
Tell me not thou who wast once a drunkard that thou hast turned to God while thine cup is dear to thee and thou canst still wallow in in by excess.

Come not to me and say you have repented, thou greedy wretch whilst thou art yet still grinding every last penny our of some helpless tradesman whom thou hast taken like a spider in the net.

Come not to me and say thou art forgiven when thou still harbors revenge and hatred against thy brother and speak evil of him.
Thou liest to thine own confusion. Thy boldness is more brazen than the local ***** if thou darest to say "I have repented" when thine arms are up to the elbows in the filth of thine iniquity! Nay man... God will not forgive your lusts while you are still reveling in the bed of your sin>

Do you imagine he will forgive your druken feasts while you are still sittting at the gluttons table?!
Shall he forgive your profanity when your tongue is still quivering with a curse?!

Do you realy think that God will forgive your daily sins... when you repeat them agains and again... wilfully plunging into the mire? He is willing to wash thee.. but not for the sake of giveing you a license to plunge into the mud over and again.
Well" I hear somone say, "I do feel that such a change has taken place in me." I am glad to hear it, my dear sir. But I must ask you a further question. Because of divine transformation is not merely an outward act....but is a transformation of the inner soul as well; the new man (born of God) not only does no want to sin outwardly as he used to.. but he no longer wants to sin and he used to.

The flesh pots of Egypt somtimes send up a sweet smell in his nostrils, and when he passes by another man's house, where the leek and garlic and onion are streaming int the air, he half wishes to go back to his Egyptian bodage to be sure.
But in a moment he checks himself saying, "No, no. The heavenly manna is better than this; the water that flows out of the rock is sweeter than the waters of the Nile, and I cannot turn back to my old slavery under my old tyrant" There may be temptations.

Nay THERE WILL BE TEMPTATIONS. But the soul of the new creation rejects them...and agonizes to do everything possible to cast them out! His very heart longs to be free from every sin. And if he could be perfectly righteous he would.
There is not one sin he would spare....even if he was assured of the pardon in advance. If you want to give him pleasure, the old ways are not the things to bring before him. To participate in those would only bring him pain and regret now.
Because it is not merely his customs and habits that have changed.

Its his NATURE that has changed! You have not put new leaves on the tree. But there is a new root ot and no merely new branches but a new trunk too with new sap.

And there will be new fruit as the result of the newness. A glorious transformation has been wrought by gracious God! Repentance has become so real and complete that the man is NOT the man he used to be...He is a new CREATION in Christ Jesus!

If you are renewed by grace and were to meet your old self again, I am sure you would be very anxious to get out of his company! You would say,"Im sorry, sir, but I cannot spend time with the likes of somone who does what you do."
To which your old self might say: "why? You used to swear!?"
"Well I cannot now!".....

"Well But" says he "you and I are very close companions." "Yes I know we are. And I wish we were not. You are a great deal of trouble to me, every day. In fact, I wish I could get rid of you forever!"

"But", says your old self, "you used to drink quite a bit." "Yes I know. I know thou did, old self. Thou coudst sing a bar song as merrily as anyone! In fact you were the ring leader in all sorts of vice! But I am no relative of thine now. Thou are of the OLD Adam and I am of the NEW adam.

Thou art of thy father the devil. But I have another- my Father who is in heaven." I tell you. bretheren, there is no man in the world you will hate as much as your old self, and there will be nothing you will so much long to get rid of, as that old man who once was draggin thee down to hell....

And who will try his hand at it everday you live, and who will accomplish it yet, unless that divine grace that justifies you, also santifies you!!"

Charles Spurgeon ]]> General Discussions 1onetheone http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5142-sinning-christians-wont-enter-kingdom-heaven.html Modern day money changers http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5139-modern-day-money-changers.html Sun, 05 Sep 2010 02:06:28 GMT Would someone promoting or selling their own CD, DVD's or books be considered as one of those in Matthew 21:12?

Or the worship team selling a CD?

A guest speaker selling their CD or books?

A baseball team selling candy?

That's the short list, but basically things along those lines?

Matthew 21:12
[ Jesus at the Temple ] Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. ]]> General Discussions EvanT http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5139-modern-day-money-changers.html In the Eyes of God... http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5133-eyes-god.html Sat, 04 Sep 2010 18:03:22 GMT In the eyes of God, which would be worse, a person who never having served God is a practicing homosexual; or a person who after dedicating his life to God continues the public pretense of active involvement in a local Christian assembly, has begun to regularly both listen to and tell "dirty" jokes to people on his job? ]]> General Discussions Amadeus http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5133-eyes-god.html Prosperity gospel http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5126-prosperity-gospel.html Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:45:44 GMT I heard this term before and it has negative connotation. Is it wrong to prosper ? What would we consider right and wrong prosperity as taught by "prosperity" preachers ? ]]> General Discussions ElpidioLGagolinan http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5126-prosperity-gospel.html abortion and homosexuality http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5121-abortion-homosexuality.html Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:25:40 GMT The endless posts on the topic of homosexuality and abortion And talks on the subject of homosexuality or even the topic of abortion that do not contain the name of Azazel are doomed in their incompleteness of the subject • Leviticus 16:8 (New International Version) • 8 He is to cast lots for the two goats—one lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat. • Leviticus 16:8 (New King James Version) • 8 Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the LORD and the other lot for the scapegoat. *These two translation have missed a point here;* Azazel Leviticus 16:8 (Darby Translation) 8And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats: one lot for Jehovah, and the other lot for Azazel. Leviticus 16:8 (New Living Translation) 8 He is to cast sacred lots to determine which goat will be reserved as an offering to the LORD and which will carry the sins of the people to the wilderness of Azazel. Leviticus 16:8 (American Standard Version) 8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for Jehovah, and the other lot for Azazel. The first abortion; (After the death of Adam; after the pillar of Enoch was built) Azazel having taken a wife from the sons of Cain (genesis six) has produce a child from this union; a Nephilim. After this a second pregnancy occurs; but this time with the job of producing a line that is kin with mankind this next child serves no purpose. Azazel teaches the crushing of the fetus in the womb and the first abortion occurs. The origins of homosexuality In the beginning god created the male and female; each of the where male and female. God created the first of them; he created Adam. And from Adam came Eve; so the first of them god created; he created them male and female. After the fall of man, when Adam and Eve had left the garden they produced a child like themselves ( actually twins a male and a female ) whom they named Cain and Alkemia. Through the different writing that come to us the names of the first girls will change I will use the names as they are seen from the story I first learned of this. This is done again and the birth of Abel and Luluwa is next. In the beginning god created “THEM” male and female. Matthew five Murder; Cain kills Abel Adultery Cain takes the twin sister of Abel ( Luluwa) as his wife ;NOT THE ONE HE WAS CREATED WITH Divorce ; THIS LEAVES THE TWIN OF CAIN ; ~~~~DIVORCED ~~~~ SETH IS BORN MALE ONLY TO TAKE THE PLACE OF Abel ; he marries the twin sister of Cain ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ moving to genesis six We have the fallen angels; removing females as their wives Leaving how many men without a mate? Azazel with his actions of wife stealing has led to homosexuality Ok ; now start your conversations on being gay and even the abortion issues p.s. ; for those who wish to show homosexuality in animals ; think about it The endless posts on the topic of homosexuality and abortion
And talks on the subject of homosexuality or even the topic of abortion that do not contain the name of Azazel are doomed in their incompleteness of the subject

• Leviticus 16:8 (New International Version)
• 8 He is to cast lots for the two goats—one lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat.
• Leviticus 16:8 (New King James Version)
• 8 Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the LORD and the other lot for the scapegoat.

These two translation have missed a point here; Azazel

Leviticus 16:8 (Darby Translation)
8And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats: one lot for Jehovah, and the other lot for Azazel.
Leviticus 16:8 (New Living Translation)
8 He is to cast sacred lots to determine which goat will be reserved as an offering to the LORD and which will carry the sins of the people to the wilderness of Azazel.
Leviticus 16:8 (American Standard Version)
8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for Jehovah, and the other lot for Azazel.
The first abortion;
(After the death of Adam; after the pillar of Enoch was built)
Azazel having taken a wife from the sons of Cain (genesis six) has produce a child from this union; a Nephilim. After this a second pregnancy occurs; but this time with the job of producing a line that is kin with mankind this next child serves no purpose. Azazel teaches the crushing of the fetus in the womb and the first abortion occurs.

The origins of homosexuality
In the beginning god created the male and female; each of the where male and female.
God created the first of them; he created Adam. And from Adam came Eve; so the first of them god created; he created them male and female. After the fall of man, when Adam and Eve had left the garden they produced a child like themselves ( actually twins a male and a female ) whom they named Cain and Alkemia. Through the different writing that come to us the names of the first girls will change I will use the names as they are seen from the story I first learned of this. This is done again and the birth of Abel and Luluwa is next.
In the beginning god created “THEM” male and female.
Matthew five
Murder; Cain kills Abel
Adultery Cain takes the twin sister of Abel ( Luluwa) as his wife ;NOT THE ONE HE WAS CREATED WITH
Divorce ; THIS LEAVES THE TWIN OF CAIN ; ~~~~DIVORCED

~~~~ SETH IS BORN MALE ONLY TO TAKE THE PLACE OF Abel ; he marries the twin sister of Cain

~~~~~~~~~~~~~ moving to genesis six
We have the fallen angels; removing females as their wives
Leaving how many men without a mate?
Azazel with his actions of wife stealing has led to homosexuality
Ok ; now start your conversations on being gay and even the abortion issues


p.s. ; for those who wish to show homosexuality in animals ; think about it ]]> General Discussions alphaomega3160 http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5121-abortion-homosexuality.html Question about T2O http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5116-question-about-t2o.html Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:17:14 GMT Our Mission Statement: To encourage candid communication among people of good faith everywhere who seek the truth. Our objective is to promote true unity among the world wide community of faith. It is not our objective to create "artificial unity" or unity for its own sake. This website rests on the premise that if we are true2ourselves, the bonding experience of our ministers will surely become our own! We will then continue our march together towards God's glory where all believers will eventually be one!

Question:

What 'faith' is the mission statement talking about? Is this site dedicated to the binding together of CHRISTIAN denominations/churches-- which is an enormous enough task in itself-- or is it open to all faiths, worldwide?
]]> General Discussions Gentlewind http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5116-question-about-t2o.html I grieved over the world... http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5115-i-grieved-over-world.html Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:26:06 GMT I grieved over the world...

but then, I realized that by doing so I wasn't trusting God.

and then, I realized that God does the drawing.

and then, I realized that I could not give that which only God can.

and then, I realized only through how I lived my life and the words I spoke could another desire to have what I had.

Yes, I grieved over the world...

but then I realized that perpetual grieving was sinful.

and, it took away the ability for my life to encourage another to want to have what God had given me.

Why would anyone want what has made another full of complaint and sadness continually?

Oh yes, grieve if you must. Let it have it's season, but let it only be for a season.


]]> General Discussions PermaPetra http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5115-i-grieved-over-world.html Test for the born again http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5111-test-born-again.html Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:51:53 GMT Hi Brethren, You hear born again of spirit but I have not come across one please. Test for the born again is:- John, the Baptist baptised Jewish men of age and sensible in water and said that after me will come that who will baptise you in Holy Spirit. So, in whose name then John baptised men in water then? Why John never baptised a woman or a Gentile? Clue:- People of the Book who are governed by the Bible cannot find the answer even though it is written there. People of spirit have no difficulty as no son of Man no son of God is known to them. Hi Brethren,

You hear born again of spirit but I have not come across one please.

Test for the born again is:-

John, the Baptist baptised Jewish men of age and sensible in water and said that after me will come that who will baptise you in Holy Spirit. So, in whose name then John baptised men in water then? Why John never baptised a woman or a Gentile?

Clue:-

People of the Book who are governed by the Bible cannot find the answer even though it is written there.

People of spirit have no difficulty as no son of Man no son of God is known to them. ]]> General Discussions nijjhar http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5111-test-born-again.html Born Again or...? http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5110-born-again.html Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:50:24 GMT "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." I John 3:9

So then does the verse in I John mean that anyone who is still sinning is not yet born again, perhaps still in the process of being born or...? ]]> General Discussions Amadeus http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5110-born-again.html Those Ugly Old Birds vs. God’s Grace http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5109-those-ugly-old-birds-vs-god-s-grace.html Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:45:58 GMT I was walking through town yesterday when I saw a young boy coming toward me swinging this rusty, bent, old bird cage. On the bottom of the cage were three little wild birds, shivering with fright. I stopped the lad and asked, “What do you have there, son?” “Just some old birds,” he replied. “What are you going to do with them?” I asked. He reacted with a surprised look. “Take ’em home and have fun with ’em,” he answered. “I’m gonna tease ’em and pull out their feathers to make ’em fight. I’m gonna have a real good time.” “But you’ll get tired of those birds sooner or later. What will you do then?” The youngster answered, “Oh, I got some cats. They like birds. I’ll take ’em to them.” “How much do you want for those birds, son?” Startled, the boy replied, “Huh? Why, you don’t want them birds, mister. They’re just plain old field birds. They don’t sing. They ain’t even pretty!” “How much?” I asked again. The boy sized me up as though I was crazy, and said, “Ten dollars!” I reached into my pocket and took out a ten-dollar bill and placed in the boy’s hand. In a flash, he was gone. I picked up the cage and gently carried it to the end of the alley, where there was a tree and a grassy spot. Setting the cage down, I opened the door and by softly tapping the bars, I persuaded the birds out, setting them free. Then I began to do a little reflecting. One day Satan and Jesus were having a conversation. Satan had just come from the Garden of Eden and was gloating and boasting. “Yes, sir, I just caught a world full of people down there. Set me a trap, used bait I knew they couldn’t resist, and got ’em all!” “What are you going to do with them?” Jesus asked. Satan replied, “Oh, I’m gonna have fun! I’m gonna teach them how to marry and divorce each other, how to hate and abuse each other, how to drink and smoke and curse. I’m gonna teach them how to invent guns and bombs and kill each other. I’m really gonna have fun!” “And what will you do when you are done with them?” Jesus asked. “Oh, I’ll kill ’em,” Satan glared proudly. “How much do you want for them?” Jesus asked. “Oh, you don’t want those people. They ain’t no good. Why, you’ll take them and they’ll just hate you. They’ll spit on you, curse you and kill you. You don’t want those people!” “How much?” Jesus asked again. Satan looked at Jesus and sneered, “All of your blood, your tears, and your life.” Jesus answered, “Done!” Then He paid the price.—Selected. I was walking through town yesterday when I saw a young boy coming toward me swinging this rusty, bent, old bird cage. On the bottom of the cage were three little wild birds, shivering with fright. I stopped the lad and asked, “What do you have there, son?”

“Just some old birds,” he replied. “What are you going to do with them?” I asked. He reacted with a surprised look.

“Take ’em home and have fun with ’em,” he answered. “I’m gonna tease ’em and pull out their feathers to make ’em fight. I’m gonna have a real good time.”

“But you’ll get tired of those birds sooner or later. What will you do then?” The youngster answered, “Oh, I got some cats. They like birds. I’ll take ’em to them.”

“How much do you want for those birds, son?” Startled, the boy replied, “Huh? Why, you don’t want them birds, mister. They’re just plain old field birds. They don’t sing. They ain’t even pretty!”

“How much?” I asked again. The boy sized me up as though I was crazy, and said, “Ten dollars!”

I reached into my pocket and took out a ten-dollar bill and placed in the boy’s hand. In a flash, he was gone. I picked up the cage and gently carried it to the end of the alley, where there was a tree and a grassy spot. Setting the cage down, I opened the door and by softly tapping the bars, I persuaded the birds out, setting them free. Then I began to do a little reflecting.

One day Satan and Jesus were having a conversation. Satan had just come from the Garden of Eden and was gloating and boasting. “Yes, sir, I just caught a world full of people down there. Set me a trap, used bait I knew they couldn’t resist, and got ’em all!”

“What are you going to do with them?” Jesus asked. Satan replied, “Oh, I’m gonna have fun! I’m gonna teach them how to marry and divorce each other, how to hate and abuse each other, how to drink and smoke and curse. I’m gonna teach them how to invent guns and bombs and kill each other. I’m really gonna have fun!”

“And what will you do when you are done with them?” Jesus asked. “Oh, I’ll kill ’em,” Satan glared proudly.

“How much do you want for them?” Jesus asked. “Oh, you don’t want those people. They ain’t no good. Why, you’ll take them and they’ll just hate you. They’ll spit on you, curse you and kill you. You don’t want those people!”

“How much?” Jesus asked again. Satan looked at Jesus and sneered, “All of your blood, your tears, and your life.” Jesus answered, “Done!”

Then He paid the price.—Selected. ]]> General Discussions Amadeus http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5109-those-ugly-old-birds-vs-god-s-grace.html <![CDATA[Is the church getting "worldly" in order to reach the world for Christ ?]]> http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5108-church-getting-worldly-order-reach-world-christ.html Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:54:37 GMT I just received a video alleging that evangelical churches are getting "R" rated in trying to win the world for Christ. The message seems to convey that Joel Osteen, Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Church and the use of rock bands in some churches and crusades are "R" rated which I take to mean as too worldly.

I would like to hear what you think. Another way to put this is how far can churches go to reach the world for Christ ?

ped ]]> General Discussions ElpidioLGagolinan http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5108-church-getting-worldly-order-reach-world-christ.html Water Heaters, and washer, and dryers!! Oh My!! http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5106-water-heaters-washer-dryers-oh-my.html Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:17:19 GMT I need to buy in the next couple of days a new washer and dryer. Its come down to either a whirlpool brand or a samsung brand. They are both of same price and quality, but I lean toward Whirlpool as I believe its made in country. Anyone got some advise for me? Also thinking of getting a new water heater (trying to be more conservative with daily electric costs) and have been looking at tankless water heaters, but I have this feeling it will require a large installation cost (wrapping pipe, installing new pipe perhaps), the original cost would be just for the unit, $250 to $800 range. Not sure if getting a new cheaper unit would change the electric cost for better or not. I think we have limited space for it, only having a small 30 gallon size. Any advise would be welcome. I need to buy in the next couple of days a new washer and dryer. Its come down to either a whirlpool brand or a samsung brand. They are both of same price and quality, but I lean toward Whirlpool as I believe its made in country. Anyone got some advise for me?

Also thinking of getting a new water heater (trying to be more conservative with daily electric costs) and have been looking at tankless water heaters, but I have this feeling it will require a large installation cost (wrapping pipe, installing new pipe perhaps), the original cost would be just for the unit, $250 to $800 range. Not sure if getting a new cheaper unit would change the electric cost for better or not. I think we have limited space for it, only having a small 30 gallon size. Any advise would be welcome. ]]> General Discussions Soulheart3 http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/general-discussions/5106-water-heaters-washer-dryers-oh-my.html