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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Science  > Brains and Creation

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  #1  
Old 07-09-2013, 07:08 PM
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Default Brains and Creation

Ironically, the fact that we have the statement "I am not convinced by theistic claims of a guided design" itself lends to the credence of its claims.

Our brains are one of the greatest evidences of design. They are more complex than computers. But more than that, they lend to billions of distinct centers of self-awareness and subjective processing of objective realities. We would think a person insane who claimed that Bill Gates and the silicon valley crew did not create the hardware and software we have today, if, for example, we found a thousand computers loaded with 1000 different versions of windows in the desert, we would not argue that random processes and natural selection were their cause.
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  #2  
Old 07-09-2013, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linsinbigler View Post
Ironically, the fact that we have the statement "I am not convinced by theistic claims of a guided design" itself lends to the credence of its claims.

Our brains are one of the greatest evidences of design. They are more complex than computers. But more than that, they lend to billions of distinct centers of self-awareness and subjective processing of objective realities. We would think a person insane who claimed that Bill Gates and the silicon valley crew did not create the hardware and software we have today, if, for example, we found a thousand computers loaded with 1000 different versions of windows in the desert, we would not argue that random processes and natural selection were their cause.
Exactly. Perhaps we should run an experiment. Get a test tube, suck everything out of it.. then put it in a cold dark place. I'm willing to bet that given enough time (and totally on its own), a brain (perhaps an entire Universe) will suddenly emerge... it just makes good logical sense

Last edited by Mark : 07-09-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Exactly. Perhaps we should run an experiment. Get a test tube, suck everything out of it.. then put it in a cold dark place. I'm willing to bet that given enough time (and totally on its own), a brain (perhaps an entire Universe) will suddenly emerge... it just makes good logical sense
Exactly! I'll be holding my breath.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Exactly. Perhaps we should run an experiment. Get a test tube, suck everything out of it.. then put it in a cold dark place. I'm willing to bet that given enough time (and totally on its own), a brain (perhaps an entire Universe) will suddenly emerge... it just makes good logical sense
What would this be a model of?
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

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What would this be a model of?
How intelligence evolved out of nothing.
Like the tornado in the junkyard, except with-out the tornado or the junkyard.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

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How intelligence evolved out of nothing.
Like the tornado in the junkyard, except with-out the tornado or the junkyard.
How is it representing the conditions prior to the big bang expansion?
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

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How is it representing the conditions prior to the big bang expansion?
There is nothing in there. Well, except air, which is still more than everything started with.
"Nothing", is too big for us to fully wrap our minds around. Its not possible, and yet, it is?
Here is another question to ponder. What did the first organism feed on. They had to be cannibals, right? How many evolved at the same time? More specifically, how many of that first organism? One? Where did the nutrition to grow and divide come from? A hundred? How did more than one survive the cannibalism? And wow, that is a miracle of the highest order. Isn't it? Multiple cells evolve at the same time. Beyond the fact that these minerals and dirt came together and "just" became alive.
Talk about faith! Man, do you have faith! That's why we say that Atheism is a religion. Don't tell us you have no faith. Can you prove that the first organism crawled up out of some primordial goo?
There are an awful lot of very unscientific assumptions going on there my friend.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

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Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
There is nothing in there. Well, except air, which is still more than everything started with.
"Nothing", is too big for us to fully wrap our minds around. Its not possible, and yet, it is?
Is it? We don't know if the conditions prior to the big bang was that there was absolute nothingness - we simply don't know what they are.

Quote:
Here is another question to ponder. What did the first organism feed on. They had to be cannibals, right?
That really depends on when you want to start calling things "organisms". It's quite possible that the earliest forms of life were vesicles of fatty acids which were permeable to organic molecules floating around them. It's just chemistry at this point.

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How many evolved at the same time? More specifically, how many of that first organism? One?
Probably more than one.

Quote:
And wow, that is a miracle of the highest order. Isn't it? Multiple cells evolve at the same time.
You're jumping ahead. Single-celled organisms started off incredibly simple, then evolved complexity through random variation and non-random selection.

Quote:
Beyond the fact that these minerals and dirt came together and "just" became alive. Talk about faith! Man, do you have faith!
Not at all, it's just chemistry. Here's a good intro to one hypothesis: The Origin of Life. You can go ahead and skip to 2:30 to get straight to the point. It goes through how fatty acids can spontaneously form vesicles that can then absorb organic molecules and reproduce based on nothing more than chemistry in conditions consistent with what we know about the early Earth. It then goes on to show how this could lead to the formation of the first proto-cells.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

Another experiment... get a dead rock, put it in empty space and subject it to radiation. Eventually, it will "come to life" all on its own.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Brains and Creation

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Another experiment... get a dead rock, put it in empty space and subject it to radiation. Eventually, it will "come to life" all on its own.
Why not start with a cloud of dust?
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