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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Science  > Convert to Geocentrism

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  #21  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

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Originally Posted by ThirdDay View Post
You can't demonstrate the movement of the earth.
Yes I can. With nothing more than a piece of string and a brick. Maybe you haven't heard of Foucault's Pendulum or the Coriolis effect. You should have learned this at High school. Tell me which one you went to and I'll email them and tell them to get their act together.

How about the retrograde motion of the planets? How do planets reverse direction? You can see this with the naked eye.

How about the parallax of stars? How does that work if we're stationary? What could cause it? All the stars moving just the right amount so it looks like we're not moving?

Doppler effect? It's even noticeable from signals received by Voyager 1. That would only work if we are moving in relation to the craft.

And you won't find the answers at Scripture Catholic either. Do some research on the matter and let us know what you think in regard to the problems above.

Last edited by Brad : 04-22-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2012, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

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Originally Posted by ThirdDay View Post
1 Chron. 16:30 – “yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved.”

Psalm 93:1 – “Yea, the world is established; it shall never be moved.”

Psalm 104:5 – “Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.”

Please go to scripturecatholic.com and go to the link on geocentrism to read more.
I reason these passages show just how little man knows about God.

It is not God stating these passages.

It could also mean the world could not be moved off it's course.
God has established destiny for the earth until the new earth after the resurrection of all and it shall not be moved or shaken from that course.

29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name;
bring an offering and come before him.
Worship the LORD in the splendor of his holiness.
30 Tremble before him, all the earth!
The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.


(established)▸ adjective: conforming with accepted standards

Ascribe, bring an offering, come before and worship or not as the destiny of the world is established either heaven or hell to an extent.

(foundation)▸ noun: lowest support of a structure

or could be read as
▸ noun: education or instruction in the fundamentals of a field of knowledge

The LORD Speaks
1 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans (destiny)
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;

I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
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  #23  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:59 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

Why is the earth mentioned in the middle of a Psalm praising the Lord? To instruct us about geocentrism?

Psalm 93:1The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.
2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.


In my mind, this still has something to do with praising God. The purposes of God concerning the earth are not going to change. When the Lord reigns, the earth rejoices.

Can it mean that the earth is physically stationary? Should we read the Bible that way? If so, what about Isaiah?

Isaiah 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

What should we make of the word "foundation"?

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

The word is translated by a long phrase in English, "hast laid the foundation." It could mean simply, "ordained."

The Hebrew word is yacad. I don't think it necessarily has to mean "foundation" in a physical sense. The same word is found in Exodus:

Exodus 9:18 Behold, to morrow about this time I will cause it to rain a very grievous hail, such as hath not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now.


In this passage, it's translated as "ordain."

1Ch 9:22 All these which were chosen to be porters in the gates were two hundred and twelve These were reckoned by their genealogy in their villages, whom David and Samuel the seer did ordain in their set office.
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  #24  
Old 04-23-2012, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

Quote:
=Brad;131969]Yes I can. With nothing more than a piece of string and a brick. Maybe you haven't heard of Foucault's Pendulum or the Coriolis effect.
You don’t think Einstein was familiar with Foucault’s pendulum or the Coriolis effect? That is why other experiments have been tried to prove the movement of the earth. Foucault’pendulum and the Coriolis effect are no help to you.
The theory is that because the plane of the pendulum appears to be moving in a circle then the earth beneath it must be rotating. That logic doesn’t’ prove the Earth is rotating. It is just as logical and scientifically consistent to state that the combined forces of the universe which rotate around the Earth are causing the plane of the pendulum to rotate around an immobile earth.
Don’t ignore what Einstein said “The two sentences, the sun is at rest and the Earth moves,” or “the sun moves and the Earth is at rest,” would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems.”

Quote:
How about the retrograde motion of the planets? How do planets reverse direction? You can see this with the naked eye.
It doesn’t matter what model one uses, the geocentric or the heliocentric model, the retrograde motion is still the same.

Quote:
How about the parallax of stars? How does that work if we're stationary? What could cause it? All the stars moving just the right amount so it looks like we're not moving?
Once again it makes no difference. The same parallax of stars can also be demonstrated in the geocentric model. If you have an open mind get the DVD from the website Galileo Was Wrong and watch the computer animation of both the heliocentric model and the geocentric model and you can see for yourself that in both models the results are identical.

Quote:
Doppler effect? It's even noticeable from signals received by Voyager 1. That would only work if we are moving in relation to the craft.
It’s all relative.

Quote:
And you won't find the answers at Scripture Catholic either. Do some research on the matter and let us know what you think in regard to the problems above.
Do yourself a favor and go ask the PHD's yourself. Go to the website
Galileowaswrong.com and read through their material. Send them an email.
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  #25  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

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Originally Posted by ThirdDay View Post
It is just as logical and scientifically consistent to state that the combined forces of the universe which rotate around the Earth are causing the plane of the pendulum to rotate around an immobile earth.
Say what? That is physically impossible. Your chum at Galileowaswrong talks about the aether that causes it. The ‘aether’ (and I haven’t seen that word used in any context bar medieval science) apparently would work on a pendulum in a closed box. Wonderful stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdDay View Post
It doesn’t matter what model one uses, the geocentric or the heliocentric model, the retrograde motion is still the same.
They would look exactly the same whichever model you use. But the geocentric model means that the planets would have to literally double back on themselves. The heliocentric model explains why it appears that they do. Do you believe that some planets literally have retrograde motion? If so, then let us know the reason for it.

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Originally Posted by ThirdDay View Post
Once again it makes no difference. The same parallax of stars can also be demonstrated in the geocentric model.
Again, physically impossible unless all stars are moving at different rates each precisely the different rate in relation to each of the others so that it exactly appears as if we are circling the sun. I can't begin to decribe how mind numbingly impossible that is.

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Originally Posted by ThirdDay View Post
It’s all relative.
The Doppler effect is exactly relative. Well done. As Voyager 1 is moving away from us at a constant speed, we should detect a constant Doppler effect if we were stationary. But as the earth moves away from the line of flight of V1 and then back towards it as we circle the sun, there is a variation in the Doppler effect.

This is categorically undeniable and physically cannot happen unless the craft itself is slowing down and speeding up exactly every six months at exactly the speed that the earth would take circling the sun.

You need to learn more science and put less trust like idiots such as Rob Bennett.
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  #26  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

When we're talking about the earth being the center of the universe, we're talking about one of three things:

A: The Earth is the center of the universe and everything orbits around it
B: The earth is located at or near the center of the universe, but the other heavenly bodies (Stars, and planets) Do not orbit the earth.
C: The earth is the center of the universe in accordance to a spiritual or other thing. (Such as the center of the universe for the Kingdom of God or of spiritual warfare or life itself.)

Here, we're talking about option A. Now I don't think Option A is correct at the moment, although there's a chance it could be. Then again, who is a 19 year old who has never been beyond the Earth to know for sure about this?
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If you can agree with your church about 95% of the time and the 5% you and your church disagree on are minor issues, you're in a great church. Now whether or not the Lord agrees with that church is even more important. Look, you can only solve so much via government. Sometimes you have to jump off the couch and do some stuff yourself. Some peoples reaction to that?
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  #27  
Old 04-24-2012, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

Quote:
=Brad;132093]Say what? That is physically impossible. Your chum at Galileowaswrong talks about the aether that causes it. The ‘aether’ (and I haven’t seen that word used in any context bar medieval science) apparently would work on a pendulum in a closed box. Wonderful stuff.
Ether is medieval science? THen why did Einstein write "In 1905 I was of the opinion that it was no longer allowed to speak about the ether in physics. THis opinion however was to radical...it is allowed to introduce a medium filling all space....one can thus say that the ether is resurrected in the general theory of relativity"
Quote:
They would look exactly the same whichever model you use. But the geocentric model means that the planets would have to literally double back on themselves. The heliocentric model explains why it appears that they do. Do you believe that some planets literally have retrograde motion? If so, then let us know the reason for it.
You really don't get it. THe geocentric model does not mean that the planets literally have to double back on themselves. In the geocentric model that also only appear to. If you had an open mind and would look at the geocentric animation from Galileo Was Wrong you could see exactly how that works.
Quote:
Again, physically impossible unless all stars are moving at different rates each precisely the different rate in relation to each of the others so that it exactly appears as if we are circling the sun. I can't begin to decribe how mind numbingly impossible that is.
What you fail to understand is that in the although in the geocentric model the earth is the center of the universe, the planets and stars are centered on the sun and the stars and the sun revolve around the earth. You need to watch the animation to understand.
Quote:
The Doppler effect is exactly relative. Well done. As Voyager 1 is moving away from us at a constant speed, we should detect a constant Doppler effect if we were stationary. But as the earth moves away from the line of flight of V1 and then back towards it as we circle the sun, there is a variation in the Doppler effect. This is categorically undeniable and physically cannot happen unless the craft itself is slowing down and speeding up exactly every six months at exactly the speed that the earth would take circling the sun.
Voyager 1 is moving with the planets around the sun and therefore its relationship to Earth changes as the relationship of the planets changes to Earth. In other words, all the distances and speeds are the same for the geocentric as the heliocentric. Doppler works the same in either case.
Quote:
You need to learn more science and put less trust like idiots such as Rob Bennett.
If Physicist Robert Bennett is an idiot then so is ALbert Einstein, William Hubble, Fred Hoyle and others who admit that geocentrism cannot be ruled out. Until you open your mind, get the DVD which contains over 1200 pages of research as well as computer animation, there is no reason to continue with you.
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  #28  
Old 04-24-2012, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acebopata View Post
When we're talking about the earth being the center of the universe, we're talking about one of three things:

A: The Earth is the center of the universe and everything orbits around it
B: The earth is located at or near the center of the universe, but the other heavenly bodies (Stars, and planets) Do not orbit the earth.
C: The earth is the center of the universe in accordance to a spiritual or other thing. (Such as the center of the universe for the Kingdom of God or of spiritual warfare or life itself.)

Here, we're talking about option A. Now I don't think Option A is correct at the moment, although there's a chance it could be. Then again, who is a 19 year old who has never been beyond the Earth to know for sure about this?
THe earth is the center of the universe BUT the stars and planets are centered on the sun. The sun and the stars and planets then revolve around a stationary earth.
I would encourage you to get the DVD from Galileowaswrong.com which contains both volumes (over 1200 pages) as well as computer animation comparing the heliocentric model side by side with the geocentric model.
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  #29  
Old 04-24-2012, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

So now we have the sun rolling around the earth on a daily basis, the earth is stationary, and the planets are rolling around the sun.

Let's look at Jupiter. It can be seen in the night sky practically every month of the year as the earth revolves on a daily basis. Jupiter orbits the sun in around 12 years. Its distance from the sun would mean, in the geocentric model, that it would, from any given point on the earth, be beneath the horizon for nearly 6 years at a time.

Please don't tell me to buy the DVD. If you have an answer to that, post it.
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  #30  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Convert to Geocentrism

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I would encourage you to get the DVD from Galileowaswrong.com which contains both volumes (over 1200 pages) as well as computer animation comparing the heliocentric model side by side with the geocentric model.
Well of course there is something to buy, there always is with these crackpot theories. The young earth people also have a boatload of stuff to sell. How much money did Galileowaswrong.com get out of you I wonder?

Perhaps it would be good to start the conversation here, what evidence would you accept as reason to believe that that the earth is not the center of the universe, or is there even anything that you would accept?
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