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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Science  > Male-male bonding in zebra finches

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  #1  
Old 08-16-2011, 07:56 PM
Giuliano
 
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Default Male-male bonding in zebra finches

The BBC reports that researchers have discovered that zebra finches sometimes form same-sex bonds (BBC Nature - Homosexual zebra finches form long-term bond).

Dr Elie and her colleagues are interested in zebra finches' behaviour. The birds establish life-long relationships and are highly social; males sing to their mates, the birds preen each other and pairs share a nest.
. . .

First, she and her colleagues, Clementine Vignal and Nicolas Mathevon from the University of Saint-Etienne, raised young finches in same-sex groups. More than half of the birds paired up with another bird of the same sex.

. . .

In the next stage of their study, the scientists brought novel females to a group of bonded male-male pairs. Out of eight males that were engaged in same-sex pair-bonds, five ignored the females completely and continued to interact with their male partner.

The topic is complex, of course. One thing was that they segregated birds into groups of the same sex. I wonder if that has implications for humans? I doubt it myself. If it did, it would mean that half the boys sent to all boy schools would turn out gay.
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  #2  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:03 PM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

And if my grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon.
What's your point?
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  #3  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:27 PM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

I find it interesting that two male birds find it advantageous to form a monogamous relationship.

Think about it. We would have less welfare cases at public expense if gay people formed stable monogamous relationships. If one got sick and lost his job, perhaps the insurance of the other would cover him; and the healthy one could pay the bills like the mortgage. It would be better than having people by themselves and then going on the dole.

I'm thinking about society. I also find the past statistics from National Center for Health Statistics of interest. Fewer heterosexuals are forming permanent monogamous bonds. Over 40% of the children born in 2007 in this country were born out of wedlock. This cannot be good for society. it cannot be good for our economy and the current financial troubles of the government. The latest study now has it at 41%. Article at: Study: Are Cohabiting Parents Bad For Kids? : NPR.

Put aside the morality issues. Think economics and taxes. The lack of lasting monogamous relationships is not good for the country. It increases government spending too.

Do you know how much we spend on prisons? It's a fantastic amount; and most of the people in prison (I think it's over 80%) come from one parent households. Never mind the morality of encouraging stable marriages -- think of the financial costs to society and how these children often grow up. I think we should encourage anyone who actually forms stable relationships to do so.

Think about this. Our government actually subsidizes bad behavior. Some young girls see getting pregnant, although unmarried, as a way of getting out of their parents house. They can get money from the government to do it, too.
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  #4  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:39 PM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
I find it interesting that two male birds find it advantageous to form a monogamous relationship...........
I like the way birds lay eggs.

If a human female laid an egg she'd be a freak of nature.
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  #5  
Old 08-16-2011, 09:25 PM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
I like the way birds lay eggs.

If a human female laid an egg she'd be a freak of nature.
I like the way some female birds don't have sex with the males until the males helped build a nest. If only women could learn this! Never mind the morality if sermons about morality aren't convincing -- it's common sense. No nest, no sex.
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2011, 12:28 AM
Linsinbigler's Avatar
Representative Clergy
 
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
I like the way birds lay eggs.

If a human female laid an egg she'd be a freak of nature.
Thumbs up on this one.
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  #7  
Old 08-18-2011, 12:40 AM
Linsinbigler's Avatar
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
I like the way some female birds don't have sex with the males until the males helped build a nest. If only women could learn this! Never mind the morality if sermons about morality aren't convincing -- it's common sense. No nest, no sex.
"It don't mean a thing if you ain't got that ring." Yes, the young men of our time have no sense of this. Of course, if sex is "free," then it is the same as free other stuff such as houses or property. You take care of something you invested in and would personally have to replace. With personal relationships, who needs dairy farmers when you have fake powdered milk given on the dole with a bottle to boot? I'm not sure if I could agree "never mind the morality." Ethics are a funny thing. When they are called into question, we get into trouble. Maybe some day a homosexual of caucasian descent will be more acceptable than a Jewish family man. Its happened once before. Maybe a white adulterer is more acceptable than a black family man. It has happened before. Maybe a Greek pedophile is more acceptable than a Barbarian family man. It has happened before.
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  #8  
Old 08-18-2011, 01:32 AM
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

Relative morality. Even the church indulges.
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  #9  
Old 08-18-2011, 04:09 AM
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
If a human female laid an egg she'd be a freak of nature.
Perhaps they don't lay them (well they don't) but human females do produce them.

Female Reproductive System
The male gamete, or sperm, and the female gamete, the egg or ovum, meet in the
female's ... These genes come from the male's sperm and the female's egg. ...
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  #10  
Old 08-18-2011, 04:12 AM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: Male-male bonding in zebra finches

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
I like the way birds lay eggs.
If a human female laid an egg she'd be a freak of nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
Perhaps they don't lay them (well they don't) but human females do produce them.
I know that Cinder. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
Female Reproductive System
The male gamete, or sperm, and the female gamete, the egg or ovum, meet in the
female's ... These genes come from the male's sperm and the female's egg. ...
Thanks for the biology lesson.

My point was: What is normal for one species is not neccessarily normal for another. Guiliano figured he'd sneak some thinly veiled pro-same-sex marriage stuff into the Science forum, right G.?
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