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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Science  > God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

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  #1  
Old 03-20-2011, 10:45 AM
antonyanil
 
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Default God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

You should not blame God that He is unable to make us understand the unimaginable God. So far we are thinking that we are able to understand God after doing lot of penance. This wrong knowledge is removed by God and today, you understood that you can never understand God. This point is also supported by the absence of spatial dimensions of God.

By this, scientists need not think that the unimaginable God beyond space does not exist at all. The genuine miracles, which are unimaginable events, exhibited by unimaginable source called as God, establish the existence of unimaginable entity and it is supported by the point that such unimaginable God is beyond space being the creator of space.
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  #2  
Old 03-20-2011, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

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Originally Posted by antonyanil View Post
God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

You should not blame God that He is unable to make us understand the unimaginable God. So far we are thinking that we are able to understand God after doing lot of penance. This wrong knowledge is removed by God and today, you understood that you can never understand God. This point is also supported by the absence of spatial dimensions of God.
Is He unable to make people understand? You seem to be missing something very important. God who created us knows exactly what we can and what we cannot understand, including Him. He made a Way for man to understand and see clearly. Because you and I are not there yet does not mean that there is no way. I may still be seeing through a glass darkly, but I am already definitely seeing Him.
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2011, 08:52 PM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonyanil View Post
God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

You should not blame God that He is unable to make us understand the unimaginable God. So far we are thinking that we are able to understand God after doing lot of penance. This wrong knowledge is removed by God and today, you understood that you can never understand God. This point is also supported by the absence of spatial dimensions of God.

By this, scientists need not think that the unimaginable God beyond space does not exist at all. The genuine miracles, which are unimaginable events, exhibited by unimaginable source called as God, establish the existence of unimaginable entity and it is supported by the point that such unimaginable God is beyond space being the creator of space.
If there is a God, where would this premise lead? If there is a God and we cannot understand anything about Him, why bother talking about it?

I assume if there is a God, and if He wishes us to know anything about Him, He provided some means for us to come to know. I assume that there is something God shares something with God -- that God gave us something so it would be possible to understand some things about Him. This I call the "image and likeness of God" since my tradition is from the Bible. Buddhists might call it the "Buddha Nature" and Hindus "Atman."
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2011, 08:56 PM
antonyanil
 
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Default Re: God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

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Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
If there is a God, where would this premise lead? If there is a God and we cannot understand anything about Him, why bother talking about it?

I assume if there is a God, and if He wishes us to know anything about Him, He provided some means for us to come to know. I assume that there is something God shares something with God -- that God gave us something so it would be possible to understand some things about Him. This I call the "image and likeness of God" since my tradition is from the Bible. Buddhists might call it the "Buddha Nature" and Hindus "Atman."
The absolute God is unimaginable. We cannot imagine Him or see Him. He is beyond our comprehension. He is beyond the worldly logic. Such GOD created this world for His entertainment. The creation is only His dream. Thus creation is His imagination. The creation is negligible or nothing compared to God or almost nil or only God is said to be truly existing or THE TRUTH.

Such God enters into His own creation (own imagination) by selecting the most suitable soul existing in the creation known as Son of God to give His presence to us, preach, and uplift us through divine knowledge. He is known as Human Incarnation and we can see Him, touch Him, co-live with Him and clear all our doubts. Whoever see Son of God has seen the invisible God existing in Him. This is the only way to see and serve the unimaginable God.
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2011, 08:58 PM
antonyanil
 
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Default Re: God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Is He unable to make people understand? You seem to be missing something very important. God who created us knows exactly what we can and what we cannot understand, including Him. He made a Way for man to understand and see clearly. Because you and I are not there yet does not mean that there is no way. I may still be seeing through a glass darkly, but I am already definitely seeing Him.
God is known to God

(God is known to God and hence the prerequisite condition is fulfilled. For human beings, the unimaginable God can exist like the unimaginable miracle).


Veda says that the knower of God is God Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva…). Hence, though God is unknown to human beings, He is known to Himself. If you say that the existence of anything must satisfy the prior condition of its knowledge, the rule is not violated since God is having His knowledge. Then, you may say that God exists for God only since the prior condition is limited to God only.

This is not correct because you are agreeing the existence of an unimaginable miracle also in the world. When the miracle is demonstrated, it is unimaginable but its existence in the world is accepted. Hence, the existence of unimaginable item like miracle exists in the case of human beings.

(The concept of unimaginable nature requires the relative existence of the concept of imaginable nature).

To recognize day, night should relatively exist. Similarly, to recognize the existence of unimaginable nature, relatively the imaginable nature must exist. If everything is unimaginable there is no significance of the very concept of unimaginable nature. Therefore, the world with imaginable items exists, so that the unimaginable nature of God can be recognized significantly through relativity.

(God is known as unknown. This is said in Veda and in Gita also)

Veda says that angels and sages came to know only one point about the God after long hectic discussions. That single point is that God is unknown (Yasyaamatam Tasyamatam…). Even Gita says that no body knows anything about God (Mamtu veda Nakaschana.). Therefore, the unimaginable nature of God is clearly established by the sacred scriptures.
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2011, 09:15 PM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonyanil View Post
The absolute God is unimaginable. We cannot imagine Him or see Him. He is beyond our comprehension.
So why keep trying?
Quote:
He is beyond the worldly logic.
This I can agree with.
Quote:
Such GOD created this world for His entertainment.
And how do you know this? If you can't comprehend God, why make this kind of statement?

Quote:
The creation is only His dream. Thus creation is His imagination.
I happen to agree, but you still haven't said how you can know such things.

Quote:
The creation is negligible or nothing compared to God or almost nil or only God is said to be truly existing or THE TRUTH.
On what basis do you say this? The fact that you cannot comprehend?
Quote:
Such God enters into His own creation (own imagination) by selecting the most suitable soul existing in the creation known as Son of God to give His presence to us, preach, and uplift us through divine knowledge. He is known as Human Incarnation and we can see Him, touch Him, co-live with Him and clear all our doubts. Whoever see Son of God has seen the invisible God existing in Him. This is the only way to see and serve the unimaginable God.
Are you sure you're using the word "imagination" the way I am? How can doubts be cleared up without being able to understand the invisible by seeing the visible? God can be understood, to whatever extent He can be, only by the imagination.
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2011, 09:44 PM
antonyanil
 
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Default Re: God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
So why keep trying?
This I can agree with.

And how do you know this? If you can't comprehend God, why make this kind of statement?

I happen to agree, but you still haven't said how you can know such things.

On what basis do you say this? The fact that you cannot comprehend?
Are you sure you're using the word "imagination" the way I am? How can doubts be cleared up without being able to understand the invisible by seeing the visible? God can be understood, to whatever extent He can be, only by the imagination.
We have to use the word unimaginable that is the only way to convey. If some body tell that by that we are definining then it is not so. In such case, you cannot use the word “Unimaginable” at all! Then, why that word is created? What is the meaning of that word? If you choose that way, silence only indicates God and some have followed this way also. Suppose you say, “I cannot utter that”. Does this mean that you have uttered that? Therefore, it is one and the same to indicate God through silence or through the word unimaginable. If a word is not assigned, mention of God becomes impossible in the spiritual knowledge. Veda uses the word “Unimaginable” for God (Atarkyah…Aprameyah…).


The philosophy deals with the discussion of the existence of unimaginable item. When you say that God is unknown, there is a danger of establishment of the non-existence of God. Philosophy says that God is unimaginable and is existing. The Philosophy further says that the unimaginable God enters and pervades a specific known medium, so that you can experience the mediated God. It is just like the unseen electricity entering a seen metallic wire giving you the experience of its existence through the shock.

The philosophy deals with the investigation of the real path to please God etc., Therefore, Philosophy cannot be limited to one single statement, which states that we need not speak about God since God is unimaginable. Some say that the awareness is God and several others say that other imaginable items are God. We have to negate all these proposals by establishing that all these are imaginable items and hence cannot be the unimaginable God. All these aspects are to be dealt in detail and in depth and this makes philosophy a vast subject.
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2011, 10:15 PM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonyanil View Post
We have to use the word unimaginable that is the only way to convey.
To convey what? Something you can imagine?

Quote:
If some body tell that by that we are definining then it is not so. In such case, you cannot use the word “Unimaginable” at all!
If it is something which can be imagined, it would be better to avoid saying it is unimaginable.

Quote:
Then, why that word is created? What is the meaning of that word? If you choose that way, silence only indicates God and some have followed this way also. Suppose you say, “I cannot utter that”. Does this mean that you have uttered that? Therefore, it is one and the same to indicate God through silence or through the word unimaginable. If a word is not assigned, mention of God becomes impossible in the spiritual knowledge. Veda uses the word “Unimaginable” for God (Atarkyah…Aprameyah…).
It obscures matters.


Quote:
The philosophy deals with the discussion of the existence of unimaginable item.
Then it is dealing with things which cannot be known.

Quote:
When you say that God is unknown, there is a danger of establishment of the non-existence of God. Philosophy says that God is unimaginable and is existing.
People can say anything; and some may even call themselves philosophers.

I would say that God is not like any objects within time and space. If we imagine God is like things in the universe, we should clear this idea from the mind.
Quote:
The Philosophy further says that the unimaginable God enters and pervades a specific known medium, so that you can experience the mediated God. It is just like the unseen electricity entering a seen metallic wire giving you the experience of its existence through the shock.

The philosophy deals with the investigation of the real path to please God etc., Therefore, Philosophy cannot be limited to one single statement, which states that we need not speak about God since God is unimaginable. Some say that the awareness is God and several others say that other imaginable items are God. We have to negate all these proposals by establishing that all these are imaginable items and hence cannot be the unimaginable God. All these aspects are to be dealt in detail and in depth and this makes philosophy a vast subject.
If you cannot imagine something, it's surely a waste of time to talk about it. The problem, as I see it, is that people's imaginations are filled with "forms" which they attribute to God. God is not this, God is not that. God is not any thing. These ideas within the imagination need to be discarded. When errors of the imagination are removed, the mind comes closer to true understanding which does exist within the imagination since the imagination is how the Divine is perceived. To say God cannot be imagined seems misleading to me.
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2011, 10:25 AM
antonyanil
 
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Default Re: God can never be understood-the real understanding of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
To convey what? Something you can imagine?

If it is something which can be imagined, it would be better to avoid saying it is unimaginable.


It obscures matters.


Then it is dealing with things which cannot be known.


People can say anything; and some may even call themselves philosophers.

I would say that God is not like any objects within time and space. If we imagine God is like things in the universe, we should clear this idea from the mind.
If you cannot imagine something, it's surely a waste of time to talk about it. The problem, as I see it, is that people's imaginations are filled with "forms" which they attribute to God. God is not this, God is not that. God is not any thing. These ideas within the imagination need to be discarded. When errors of the imagination are removed, the mind comes closer to true understanding which does exist within the imagination since the imagination is how the Divine is perceived. To say God cannot be imagined seems misleading to me.
No word can indicate God

Several statements of Veda clearly speak that God is completely unimaginable under any circumstances. Silence can only indicate God. Silence means that no word can be used to indicate God. In the creation every imaginable item has the specific name, which cannot be used for any other imaginable item. For example the word pot means only a particular object. The word cloth means another particular object. You cannot use one word for any other object. But God can enter any item of the creation. Therefore, the name of every item can be used to indicate God because there is no specific word for God, who is not at all a specific object. Even if God does not enter an item, the name of that item can be used to indicate God, because you are keeping that item as the representative of God. For example God never enters the inert planet like sun. But still Sun can represent God due to some similarities. God removes ignorance. Sun removes darkness. The lotus buds are opened by sun. The ignorant intelligence is also enlightened by God. Therefore, sun can represent God to some extent. Therefore, the word “sun” can also represent God.

Thus, in one extreme end no word can indicate God (Yato vachah-Veda). At another extreme end, the name of any item into which either God can enter or any item, which can represent God, can indicate God. All the prayers of God by thousand names (Shasra Nama) indicate God. When a word indicates God, it is the name of medium into which either God entered or which stands as representative God. This means you can experience God through a specific medium when God enters it. Alternatively you can also imagine the experience of existence of God through a representative item like sun. You can experience the existence of God through Lord Krishna because God entered and exists in the human body of Krishna. In case of sun you can imagine the existence of God through the properties of the sun. Thus, there is difference between the worship of human incarnation and worship of the representative item like sun, statue etc.

Veda says that you can worship sun as God, which means that sun is not directly God (Adityam Brahmaiti…Veda). There is difference between the direct worship of king and indirect worship of his photo. In both cases the king is pleased. But in the direct worship the king is extremely pleased because every bit of your service is experienced by king directly. When God enters the human body, God has not become the human body. God is in the human body. Therefore, the human body is not God. You can only experience God through human body. Therefore, by seeing the human body you have not seen God, but you have only experienced God through that human body. Therefore, God is invisible. Of course, a devotee can be satisfied by treating the human body as God and can feel satisfied that he has seen God. From this angle Veda says, “A blessed fellow has seen God” (Kaschit Dhirah…..).
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