True2Ourselves
Already a member? login
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
  
+
Register FAQ A-Z directory Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Science  > Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-20-2011, 10:43 AM
antonyanil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

Miracles are very widely distributed in the world to give proof for the existence of the God to every human being, which is the basic requirement. If you pray sincerely in a temple or even in open place, generally God gives you His answer through a miracle. Many have witnessed this in their lives. Some times due to the inevitable fruits of your past deeds, God keeps silent for some time and that time is used in your transformation.

Hence, scientists call this as probability or coincidence of events. Hence, God demonstrates specific miracles in human form to meet this twisted interpretation of scientists or atheists. Even devotees and even demons do specific miracles. God has given a wide coverage for spreading miracles since it involves the very basic issue of His existence.

Scientists have to accept the existence of unimaginable nature from the practical example of unimaginable limits of this infinite Universe. Scientists may reject miracles but can’t reject the unimaginable limits of space. One instance of existence of unimaginable entity is sufficient to prove the existence of unimaginable God. The miracles act as supporting evidences of the same concept.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:06 PM
Mark's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,713
Default Re: Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

I think the thread implies a separation between science (scientists) & religion... I don't believe there is a seperation.

There are believers & non believers... that said, there are some scientists that fit your description. They believe "understanding" how something works (physical world) removes the need for a Creator.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-20-2011, 05:12 PM
Suspended for Review
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,359
Default Re: Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonyanil View Post
[b][color="Blue"]If you pray sincerely in a temple or even in open place, generally God gives you His answer through a miracle.
Generally? They're that common? I never knew.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-20-2011, 09:04 PM
antonyanil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I think the thread implies a separation between science (scientists) & religion... I don't believe there is a seperation.

There are believers & non believers... that said, there are some scientists that fit your description. They believe "understanding" how something works (physical world) removes the need for a Creator.
Science is the logical analysis of the items existing in this creation based on only one authority that is perception (Pratyaksha Pramanam). Even in the ancient logic, all the authorities (Pramanas) are based on perception only. You see the fire giving smoke. This is deduction or perception. When you see the smoke coming from a distance and do not see the fire, you say that fire exists there and this is induction or inference (Anumana Pramanam). But this induction is based on your previous deduction only. Somebody says to you that fire gives smoke. If that person is your dearest, you believe it and infer the fire from the smoke. This is authority of word ‘Shabdha Pramanam’.

Though you have not seen the fire, your dearest person has seen the smoke coming from fire. Like this all the authorities are based on perception only. I do not find any scripture of any Religion, which contradicts the experience of perception. There are four ways of authority. 1) Sruthi, which is the original scripture. 2) Smrithi, which is the commentaries of Scholars on the original scripture. 3) Yukthi, the logical analysis based on deduction, induction etc., 4) Anubhava, the experience based on the perception of the items in this world, which may be direct or indirect. Out of these four ways, the fourth way is the most powerful. If anything contradicts the fourth way, that is not valid or it may be a misinterpretation based on misunderstanding of the Sruthi or Smrithi or Yukthi. Thus Science and Philosophy are not separate. The very frame of the spiritual knowledge is Science only. Thus Science is the basic foundation and over all underlying structure of all the Scriptures.

A true Scientist should always stand on the perception and should not deny the experience derived by perception. If he denies, he is not a scientist. All top most scientists were philosophers and spiritual people only. Those scientists have travelled along the river of Science and reached its end, which is the ocean of spiritual knowledge called as philosophy. Philosophy is pervading all the branches of Science. Every branch of Science gives Ph.D as the final degree. Ph.D means Doctor in Philosophy. If Science and Philosophy are different, why this word Philosophy is regarded so much by all the branches of Science? Philosophy means the essence of the knowledge of every branch that is experienced when one reaches the end of that branch.

Therefore, the spiritual knowledge, which is the ocean is the Philosophy in which all branches of Science and all the Religions merge and loose their identity. A scientist who has not reached the end of Science and who is still travelling in the river only denies the existence of the ocean, since he is still perceiving the limiting boundaries of his knowledge – river. Such river-travellers are called as atheists. They neither see the ocean nor see the other rivers. Even the follower of any particular Religion is in the state of this atheist only. He is no better than these atheists because he believes that God is a particular form only, which is a small part of this creation. Some other followers believe God as formless, who is the all-pervading cosmic energy. Since cosmic energy is also a part of the creation, their form of God is very big. These atheist-scientist believe that this creation is God. Thus all these are atheists only. All these atheists, who may be scientific atheists or religious atheists, will realize the true nature of God only when they reach the end of the Science or Religion.

A scientific atheist is contradicting his own authority, which is the perception. When the human incarnation performs the inexplicable miracles, how can they deny the perception of such miracles? You may do that miracle in an alternative way, but that does not contradict the different path of the original miracle. One may get first class by copying. Such false first class cannot contradict the genuine first class. The result is same, but the process is different. You may produce ash by putting a fine powder of wet salt in the grews of your hand like a magician. The same ash may be produced by a divine miracle also. Since the result is same, can you argue that the process also should be same? Since the first class result is same in the case of the original student and a fraud student, do you mean that the hard work of the original student is fraud?

Do you mean that the original and fraud students are one and the same? Therefore, the same result can have two different processes. Since the result is same, processes need not be same. Do you mean that a result has only one process? Is it not contradicting the very fundamentals of Science? A Chemical compound can be produced in several ways (Hess Law). Since the compound is same, do you mean that the alternative reactions are also one and the same? Same Chennai city can be reached by several ways.

Since the end City is same, do you mean that all the paths are not different? Do you mean that all the paths are merged as one path only and thus there is only one path to reach the Chennai city? Therefore, conservative scientists and conservative religious followers can be categorized as immature analysts. The immaturity indicates their position in the river and maturity indicates their position in the end of the river, which is the ocean. Einstein, Newton, Heisenberg etc., are the top most scientists who have travelled and travelled along the Science River and reached the final spiritual ocean.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-21-2011, 09:51 AM
Josiah
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

.


Some thoughts (from one who works in the field of science)....


1. Science is focused on "nature" and is not "supernatural." Perhaps I can put it this way: it deals with mass/energy - and nothing more. It does NOT insist "that's all there is" it simply focuses only on that, in the same way that music focuses on music without denying the existence of black holes. As such, while science typically is not focused on GOD, it does not deny the existence of such.


2. As often seems to happen, debates result from concepts defined by each differently. "Miracle" is a word never defined in Scripture (and I don't think dogmatically in ecumenical Christian theology). IF it's limited to the SUPERnatural - then, yes, by definition, it's "off the radar" of science, with science having nothing to say about it. But, IMO, such is not a sound definition. When I embraced by niece - an hour or so after her birth - I saw that as a HUGE miracle, GOD made this child, GOD created her, GOD gave her. But that does not - in any sense - suggest that God worked entirely OUTSIDE of mass/energy or "nature" to perform such, in reality, I strongly suspect that God used some amazing biochemistry to do this - entirely, wholly, within nature - totally natural and not supernatural. But, IMO, no less His doing, no less a miracle. IMO, miracle has to do with purpose and design, not so much with physics.


3. Scholastics embraces much history; the traditions come from the middle ages. This applies to degree titles too: "Doctor" "Bachelor" among them. The Ph.D. (referring to the Latin for Philosophy Doctor) flows from the middle ages; and philosophy was not as limited of a term as it is today. It simply is the terminal degree for most subjects and is focused on developing skills of RESEARCH - it is a research degree, designed to train the student to be a contributer to the field. BTW, the common lowest level degree: Bachelor of Arts does not mean that one receving the degree must be male or must be unmarried or is very artistic. Tradition....


4. My realm is physics. Probably more than any other CURRENT field, we tend to get into metaphysics - and physicists are not unknown to use the term "God" Theoretical physics and metaphysics are not always sharply distinguished. (I wish they were). IMO, scientists need to stick to science (they tend to be POOR theologians) and theologians need to stick to theology (they tend to be POOR scientists). Truth never conflicts (so none should "fear" TRUTH - although they may need to humility to accept THEY may not have it!). I purposely never get into science at religion websites (and visa versa), I wish Hawking would stick to physics - and leave theology to others, and that fundamentalist preachers would leave biology to biologists. We need not hate or fear any that are genuninely seeking truth.



That's MY one cent....


Pax


- Josiah






.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scientists and Belief Linsinbigler Christianity & Science 33 01-04-2012 10:39 PM
The 67 miracles of Lourdes CatholicCrusader General Discussions 10 05-20-2010 04:53 PM
Miracles walkinthespirit Testimonials 10 12-23-2009 07:38 AM
The delusions of scientists Carico Christianity & Science 22 11-01-2009 07:43 PM
Homosexuality not Choice says Scientists antonio Christianity & Science 82 03-31-2009 06:54 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:15 PM.


true2ourselves
 
 
 

Flashcoms

You need to upgrade your Flash Player.

Version 8 or higher is required.

download from http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29