True2Ourselves
Already a member? login
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
  
+
Register FAQ A-Z directory Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Science  > Scientists and Belief

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-05-2010, 08:32 PM
Linsinbigler's Avatar
Representative Clergy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,150
Default Scientists and Belief

Quote:
When President Barack Obama announced on July 8, 2009, that he would nominate renowned geneticist Francis Collins to be the new director of the National Institutes of Health, a number of scientists and pundits publicly questioned whether the nominee's devout religious faith should disqualify him from the position. In particular, some worried that an outspoken evangelical Christian who believes in miracles might not be the right person to fill what many consider to be the nation's most visible job in science. Collins was unanimously confirmed by the U.S. Senate on Aug. 7, 2009, but the controversy over his nomination reflects a broader debate within the scientific community between those who believe religion and science each examine legitimate but different realms of knowledge and those who see science as the only true way of understanding the universe.
Read the rest here:

Scientists and Belief - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-05-2010, 09:02 PM
Suspended for Review
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,359
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

I don't see any problem with someone who has firm religious beliefs holding office in the scientific arena - as long as their beliefs don't run counter to the science which they represent.

For example, I wouldn't expect a young earth creationist to hold any position whatsoever in a geological capacity. But belief in a deity, or in the case mentioned, miracles, shouldn't prevent you doing your job. I can't imagine Collins refusing to fund research into a particular illness because he believed the cause to be divine. I'd have cause for complaint if he did.

As for the proportion of scientists who are atheists, there has been the suggestion that a better education or a higher IQ than the general population gives them the ability to see through the smoke and mirrors of religion and therefore reach the atheist position.

Personally, I think that scientists have a certain mind set, a materialistic way of looking at things that results in them following a scientific career and that mind set also tends them toward atheism. That's the connection.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-09-2010, 06:30 AM
CatholicCrusader
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
I don't see any problem with someone who has firm religious beliefs holding office in the scientific arena....
..that's nice, since men with firm religious beliefs founded the countries we live in and wrote the laws we live under
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-09-2010, 03:53 PM
saintmichaeldefendthem
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

Where oh where would science be without the many Christians who contributed to it?

As compiled by Wikipedia:

John Philoponus (c.490–c.570) His criticism of Aristotelian physics was important to Medieval science. He also theorized about the nature of light and the stars. He was also called John of Alexandria, hence the picture. As a theologian he rejected the Council of Chalcedon and his major Christological work is Arbiter. He was a figure in the Monophysitism minority of Eastern Christianity. Cornell University[1] and Stanford University[2]


Bede, the Venerable (c.672–735) Catholic monk who wrote two works on "Time and its Reckoning." This primarily concerned how to date Easter, but contained a new recognition of the "progress wave-like" nature of tides. He was an influence early medieval knowledge of the natural world. David Edward Cartwright (1999). Tides: A Scientific History. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-5216-2145-3.

Hunayn ibn Ishaq (c. 809–873) Assyrian Christian physician known for translations of Greek scientific works and "Ten Treatises on Ophthalmology." Hence drawings of the eye are shown. He also wrote "How to Grasp Religion", which involved the apologetics for his faith. The church in the shadow of the mosque: Christians and Muslims in the world ... by Sidney Harrison Griffith

Pope Sylvester II (c.950–1003) A scientist and book collector, he influenced the teaching of math and astronomy in church-run schools, and raised the cathedral school at Rheims to the height of prosperity. A liberal as Gerbert of Rheims, when made Pope he disowned his Gallican antecedents and supported the claims of the papacy. Truman University and History of the Christian Church and an article by William Wallace [3]

Hermann of Reichenau (1013–1054) He wrote on geometry, mathematics, and the astrolabe. He was also a monk who composed Marian antiphons and was essentially beatified. McTutor

Robert Grosseteste (c.1175–1253) Bishop of Lincoln, he was the central character of the English intellectual movement in the first half of the 13th century and is considered the founder of scientific thought in Oxford. He had a great interest in the natural world and wrote texts on the mathematical sciences of optics, astronomy and geometry. He affirmed that experiments should be used in order to verify a theory, testing its consequences. A. C. Crombie, Robert Grosseteste and the Origins of Experimental Science 1100–1700, (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1971)

Pope John XXI (1215–1277) He wrote the widely used medical text Thesaurus pauperum before becoming Pope. When he took office as pope in 1277, he immediately cracked down on heterodoxy including Averroes works and teachings on Aristotle. Lawrence & Nancy Goldstone (2005). The Friar and the Cipher. Doubleday. ISBN 0-7679-1472-4. & Richard Hofstadter (1996). Academic Freedom in the Age of the College. Transaction books. ISBN 1-5600-0860-1.

Albertus Magnus (c.1193–1280) Patron saint of scientists in Catholicism who may have been the first to isolate arsenic. He wrote that: "Natural science does not consist in ratifying what others have said, but in seeking the causes of phenomena." Yet he rejected elements of Aristotelianism that conflicted with Catholicism and drew on his faith as well as Neo-Platonic ideas to "balance" "troubling" Aristotelian elements. In 1252 he helped appoint Thomas Aquinas to a Dominican theological chair in Paris to lead the suppression of these dangerous ideas. Helen S. Lang (1992). Aristotle's Physics and Its Medieval Varieties. State University of New York Press. ISBN 0-7914-1083-8. and Lawrence & Nancy Goldstone (2005). The Friar and the Cipher. Doubleday. ISBN 0-7679-1472-4.

Roger Bacon (c.1214–1294) He was an English philosopher who emphasized empiricism and has been presented as one of the earliest advocates of the modern scientific method. He joined the Franciscan Order around 1240, where he was influenced by Grosseteste. Bacon was responsible for making the concept of "laws of nature" widespread, and contributed in such areas as mechanics, geography and, most of all, optics. It is said that he was imprisoned by the church for many years because of his scientific teachings, although this is disputed. Lawrence & Nancy Goldstone (2005). The Friar and the Cipher. Doubleday. ISBN 0-7679-1472-4. and Lindberg, D.C. (1995). "Medieval Science and Its Religious Context". Osiris 10 (10): 60–79. doi:10.1086/368743.

Theodoric of Freiberg (c.1250–c.1310) Dominican who is believed to have given the first correct explanation for the rainbow in De iride et radialibus impressionibus or On the Rainbow. In theology he disagreed with Thomas Aquinas on metaphysical positions and tended towards a more Neoplatonic outlook than Aquinas. Stanford Encyclopedia of philosophy


Thomas Bradwardine (c.1290–1349) He was an English archbishop, often called "the Profound Doctor". He developed studies as one of the Oxford Calculators of Merton College, Oxford University. These studies would lead to important developments in mechanics. Catholic Encyclopedia

Jean Buridan (1300–1358) He was a Catholic priest and one of the most influential philosophers of the later Middle Ages. He developed the theory of impetus, which was an important step toward the modern concept of inertia. Essay "Scientific Revolutions as Changes of Worldview" by Thomas Samuel Kuhn in Can Theories be Refuted?: Essays on the Duhem-Quine Thesis edited by Sandra G. Harding. (D. Reidel Publishing Company, 1976)[4]

Nicole Oresme (c.1323–1382) Theologian and bishop of Lisieux, he was one of the early founders and popularizers of modern sciences. One of his many scientific contributions is the discovery of the curvature of light through atmospheric refraction. Thomas F. Glick, Steven John Livesey, & Faith Wallis, ed (2005). Medieval Science, Technology, and Medicine: An Encyclopedia. Routledge. ISBN 0-4159-6930-1.

Nicholas of Cusa (1401–1464) Catholic cardinal and theologian who made contributions to the field of mathematics by developing the concepts of the infinitesimal and of relative motion. His philosophical speculations also anticipated Copernicus’ heliocentric world-view. McTutor

Otto Brunfels (1488–1534) A theologian and botanist from Mainz, Germany. His Catalogi virorum illustrium is considered to be the first book on the history of evangelical sects that had broken away from the Catholic Church. In botany his Herbarum vivae icones helped earn him acclaim as one of the "fathers of botany" Meyers Konversationslexikon 1888 – 1889, Jahn, I. Geschichte der Biologie. Spektrum 2000, and
Mägdefrau, K. Geschichte der Botanik. Fischer 1992

Nicolaus Copernicus (1473–1543) Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view. In 1620, his work was forbidden by the Church "until corrected". The Church demanded, in "about a quarto page of fine print" that nine sentences, by which heliocentrism was represented as certain, had to be either omitted or changed. This done, the book was still specifically banned in each edition of the index of prohibited books, with an expanded entry in the 1819 index, and not removed from the list until the final edition, in 1828. Catholic Encyclopedia [5],

Michael Servetus (1511–1553) Nontrinitarian who was condemned and imprisoned by Catholics before being burned at the stake by Calvinists in Protestant-run Geneva. In science wrote on astronomy and his theological work "Christianismi Restitutio" contained the first European description of the function of pulmonary circulation. Salon review of a biography of Servetus, History of Science article

Michael Stifel (c. 1486–1567) Led to the development of Logarithms, hence the picture. He was also among Martin Luther's earlier followers and wrote on Biblical prophecies. University of Florida, Galileo Project at Rice University, and McTutor

William Turner (c.1508–1568) He is sometimes called the "father of English botany" and was also an ornithologist. Religiously he was arrested for preaching in favor of the Reformation. He later became a Dean of Wells Cathedral, pictured, but was expelled for nonconformity. Galileo Project

Ignazio Danti (1536–1586) He was a bishop of Alatri who convoked a diocesan synod to deal with abuses. He was also a mathematician who wrote on Euclid, an astronomer, and a designer of mechanical devices. McTutor

Giordano Bruno (1548–1600) He was an Italian philosopher, priest, cosmologist, and occultist, known for espousing the idea the that Earth revolves around the Sun and that many other worlds revolve around other suns. For his many heretical views, including his denial of the divinity of Christ, he was tried by the Roman Inquisition and burned at the stake. The Catholic Encyclopedia labels his system of beliefs "an incoherent materialistic pantheism." Catholic Encyclopedia; The Pope and the Heretic by Michael White and Eisen and Laderman, ed (2006). "Extraterrestrial Life and Christianity". Science, Religion, And Society: An Encyclopedia of History, Culture, And Controversy. 1. M E Sharpe. pp. 299.

Bartholomaeus Pitiscus (1561–1613) He may have introduced the word trigonometry into English and French. He was also a Calvinist theologian who acted as court preacher at the town then called Breslau, hence the image of their town square. McTutor

John Napier (1550–1617) Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms, Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals. He also was a staunch Protestant who wrote on the Book of Revelation. McTutor

Francis Bacon (1561–1626) Eminent English scientist and originator of the eponymous Baconian method or simply, the scientific method. Dictionary of the History of Ideas

Johannes Kepler (1571–1630) His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous astronomical observations, after Tycho died of mercury poisoning. He had wanted to be a theologian at one time and his Harmonice Mundi discusses Christ at points. Galileo Project and Adherents.com and Joshua Gilder and Anne-Lee Gilder (2005). Heavenly Intrigue: Johannes Kepler, Tycho Brahe, and the Murder Behind One of History's Greatest Scientific Discoveries. Anchor. ISBN 978-1-4000-3176-4 (1-4000-3176-1) ISBN.

Laurentius Gothus (1565–1646) A professor of astronomy and Archbishop of Uppsala. He wrote on astronomy and theology. Uppsala University
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-15-2010, 07:19 PM
Cartman86's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
..that's nice, since men with firm religious beliefs founded the countries we live in and wrote the laws we live under
Two points on this.

1. By that logic it would seem our founders decisions on allowing slavery and not allowing women the right to vote were right? They were perfect human beings who were never wrong?

2. It's a myth that our founders were all religious and our government was founded on Christian principles. Some were Christian, some were deist (Jefferson), and some were downright atheistic (Thomas Paine for example). If our laws were based on the bible wouldn't blasphemy be illegal? Wouldn't the separation of church and state or even the ability to worship another God be illegal?

To the grander point of science though. As long as he keeps is personal views on miracles out of his scientific duties then i'm fine with it. I'm curious how well he can do it. It seems to me though that religious scientists historically have always put science first, and when they can't find an answer they insert God in. Great scientists would simply say "we don't know".
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-15-2010, 08:05 PM
Josiah
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

.


Two of my PASSIONS are Christianity (and generally issues of faith and religion) and science. I have my BS degree (with honors) in physics and I work (sort of) in that field.

For me, the intersection of the two in my life is "complicated" (LOL). In some ways, I simply see them as two different realms and quests. But I also embrace that there is one Truth.

There ARE good, scholarly, faithful people of BOTH realms. Dr. John Polkinghorne, for example, is a very famous physicist of some years ago - largely associated with the discovery of quarks but also an Anglican priest. He's written MANY books on this subject. SADLY, there are what I regard as very, very narrow people in science and in religion who just can't see that reality is not so narrow. I sense these are not so much "protectors of truth" as they are fearful that their truth may not be or perhaps reality is not as embraced by self as they may think?

My sister - now finishing her Ph.D. in biology - says it has been a profoundly religious experience to see "SOMETHING of the hand of God." There was MANY times in my physics classes where I shouted (silently) - ours is an AWESOME God!

I know that God is Truth. I believe Scripture is true. Thus, I don't fear the truth. What MAY happen is that MY understanding or interpretation may be exposed for the errant thing it was. Good. Truth needs to prevail, not my ego. I've found both Christian theology and science to be very humbling things - separately and when seen together.


Soli Deo Gloria







.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-15-2010, 08:18 PM
Mark's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,713
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
.

My sister - now finishing her Ph.D. in biology - says it has been a profoundly religious experience to see "SOMETHING of the hand of God." There was MANY times in my physics classes where I shouted (silently) - ours is an AWESOME God!
It would be nice if more people in such fields of study would adopt your attitude.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-28-2010, 09:57 PM
Kepler's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linsinbigler View Post
Read the rest here:
The thing I found most interesting about this article was the sourceless allegations about scientists questioning Collins' fit. Who - specifically - raised this as an issue?

There are - most certainly - some in the scientific community whose skepticism (or outright denial) regarding matters of faith are well known. Richard Dawkins of course is among the most notorious. However, most scientists, who enjoy their position as scientists, would never question Collins on this. Collins has proved his worth. His work on the Human Genome Project will go down as one of the truly great achievements in science. NO ONE QUESTIONS HIS WORK ON THIS PROJECT.

I have to wonder if the author of this article was pulling this statement out of his rectum.

I personally find journalists a much more suspicious portion of the general population that scientists.

Cheers,

Kepler
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-10-2010, 10:40 AM
thelowlyfisherman's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,497
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
The thing I found most interesting about this article was the sourceless allegations about scientists questioning Collins' fit. Who - specifically - raised this as an issue?

There are - most certainly - some in the scientific community whose skepticism (or outright denial) regarding matters of faith are well known. Richard Dawkins of course is among the most notorious. However, most scientists, who enjoy their position as scientists, would never question Collins on this. Collins has proved his worth. His work on the Human Genome Project will go down as one of the truly great achievements in science. NO ONE QUESTIONS HIS WORK ON THIS PROJECT.

I have to wonder if the author of this article was pulling this statement out of his rectum.

I personally find journalists a much more suspicious portion of the general population that scientists.
Cheers,

Kepler
Here, here! And a loud Amen!
Journalism is almost purely agenda driven these days, and truth doesn't seem to be on the agenda.
__________________
Matthew 23:12:
Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-10-2010, 02:26 PM
CatholicCrusader
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Scientists and Belief

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman86 View Post
Two points on this.

1. By that logic it would seem our founders decisions on allowing slavery and not allowing women the right to vote were right? They were perfect human beings who were never wrong?

2. It's a myth that our founders were all religious and our government was founded on Christian principles. Some were Christian, some were deist (Jefferson), and some were downright atheistic (Thomas Paine for example). If our laws were based on the bible wouldn't blasphemy be illegal? Wouldn't the separation of church and state or even the ability to worship another God be illegal?

To the grander point of science though. As long as he keeps is personal views on miracles out of his scientific duties then i'm fine with it. I'm curious how well he can do it. It seems to me though that religious scientists historically have always put science first, and when they can't find an answer they insert God in. Great scientists would simply say "we don't know".
Gobbldeygook.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will anyone go to hell for his belief? WIP General Discussions 17 02-26-2010 09:50 AM
The delusions of scientists Carico Christianity & Science 22 11-01-2009 07:43 PM
Belief Systems. diebamted21 General Discussions 5 07-24-2009 11:55 AM
Is belief in miracles necessary for Christians? DoubtingThomas General Discussions 72 05-08-2009 06:12 PM
Homosexuality not Choice says Scientists antonio Christianity & Science 82 03-31-2009 06:54 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 PM.


true2ourselves
 
 
 

Flashcoms

You need to upgrade your Flash Player.

Version 8 or higher is required.

download from http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29