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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Science  > The delusions of scientists

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  #1  
Old 09-24-2009, 09:04 AM
Carico
 
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Default The delusions of scientists

God warns us in 1 Corinthians 1 and 1 John 4:5, not to put our faith in worldly beliefs or worldly people. The following is the reason why:

Quote:
Stack of Stuff Quick Hits Page
September 23, 2009
Story #1: Immortality Only 20 Years Away, Scientist Says

RUSH: I have a story here from the UK Telegraph that's a liberal dream. I'm not making this up. I genuinely feel like I'm in la-la land. "'Immortality Only 20 Years Away Says Scientist.' -- Scientist Ray Kurzweil claims humans could become immortal --" for those of you in Rio Linda, that means never die "-- in as little as 20 years' time through nanotechnology and an increased understanding of how the body works." Ray Kurzweil is an American scientist (no doubt voted for Obama) "who has predicted new technologies arriving before, says our understanding of genes and computer technology is accelerating at an incredible rate. He says theoretically, at the rate our understanding is increasing, nanotechnologies capable of replacing many of our vital organs could be available in 20 years time.

"Mr. Kurzweil adds that although his claims may seem far-fetched, artificial pancreases and neural implants are already available. Mr. Kurzweil calls his theory the Law of Accelerating Returns. Writing in The Sun, Mr. Kurzweil said: "I and many other scientists now believe that in around 20 years we will have the means to reprogramme our bodies' stone-age software so we can halt, then reverse, ageing. Then nanotechnology will let us live for ever." Well, hell's bells, folks, we don't need to spend all this money on health care then! We don't need to do cap and trade -- we're going to be able to adapt. Nobody is going to ever die! It's going to play traffic havoc, but we'll have Obama designers deal with that. Can you imagine, nobody dies? Somebody's going to have to die and who's going to decide that, Mr. Kurzweil? Oh, that's right, Obama. It's in his health care plan.
Scientists have always tried to play God and as is predictable, their arrogance knows no bounds.
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2009, 09:17 AM
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

Immortality, nano technology, genes, computer technology, Corinthians...quite a wide spectrum of ideas here.

Nothing political here and yet you still manage a shot against Obama. Outstanding work, my man.

Do you understand the term 'long bow'?
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:08 AM
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

With apologies to all the evangelicals here, I personally can't take anything that comes out of Rush L's mouth as serious. IMO the man just is not reputable.
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Why are we here, what's life all about? Is God really real, or is there some doubt? Well tonight we're going to sort it all out: For tonight it's the meaning of life" Not Finished Yet
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:45 AM
quietude
 
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

I put a great deal of faith in people. That faith is an extension of my faith in Christ. I put a measure of faith in science as well, for it is God who inspires scientists. What's interesting about science is that man, in my opinion, is approaching God more and more all the time through science. It is my faith that the time will come when we will see that the laws of nature and the laws of God are part of one composite truth, and that there has never existed one iota of disagreement between the two, only that our limited understanding of both has introduced error in both from time to time.
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  #5  
Old 09-24-2009, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

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Originally Posted by quietude View Post
I put a great deal of faith in people. That faith is an extension of my faith in Christ. I put a measure of faith in science as well, for it is God who inspires scientists. What's interesting about science is that man, in my opinion, is approaching God more and more all the time through science. It is my faith that the time will come when we will see that the laws of nature and the laws of God are part of one composite truth, and that there has never existed one iota of disagreement between the two, only that our limited understanding of both has introduced error in both from time to time.
I don't want to come across as hostile with our Mormon brother... I just want to ask a few questions... do Mormons believe scientific truth leads humanity closer to God? If that's the case, how do scientists compare to priests, for example, in regards to wisdom i.e. understanding the ways of God?

What about Miracles that break the laws of nature - Jesus walking on water... how is this "in sync" with science?
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2009, 01:27 PM
quietude
 
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I don't want to come across as hostile with our Mormon brother...
LOL, you needn't tread so lightly Mark; your respect for the faith and opinions of others is well established. Feel free to ask the questions unfiltered, and un-watered-down.
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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I just want to ask a few questions... do Mormons believe scientific truth leads humanity closer to God?
To those who are receptive to the Spirit, yes, for they will see the truth that science "discovers" within a spiritual framework. They will see things as they really are.

For example, in the Doctrine and Covenants, which is a compilation of revelations recorded by the prophets of this dispensation (we believe ), we have received this, speaking initially of Christ:
Quote:
He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;

Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.

As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;

As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;

And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.

And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;

Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space

The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.
A few years back, scientists revealed that they had discovered "dark energy," or energy that we cannot see, but that permeates all of space. When I heard that, I accepted that they had discovered something real, because of the spiritual knowledge I already possessed. Now, whether or not they label it correctly, or even conclude the right things—that's not important, for I personally gain added strength to my testimony of God through their discovery. The discovery of dark energy, in effect, is one of the ongoing signs given to me from God that he exists, and that all truth is part of one great whole. It is a sign to me, and is strengthening to me, because I have already exercised faith in God, and my mind is receptive to the truth of science.

Does that make sense? So scientists may discover x, y or z, and their conclusions may be all fouled up, but I still glean knowledge from their discovery because of the spiritual understanding I already have. And very often the scientists also "get it right," which only further compounds the effect of that truth in reinforcing what I know about God. So with the proper spiritual foundation of truth, science is always approaching a clearer understanding of God. For those without such a foundation, science will likely take them further from God.

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
If that's the case, how do scientists compare to priests, for example, in regards to wisdom i.e. understanding the ways of God?
That would depend on the spiritual foundation of the scientist. Many accomplished LDS scientists have experienced just what I have described above. How could they not? The earth, space, and everything in them have been organized by God, and are witnesses to us of his power and existence. Science, therefore, is just a means of understanding the laws by which God accomplished that, provided one has a sure spiritual foundation to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
What about Miracles that break the laws of nature - Jesus walking on water... how is this "in sync" with science?
They are totally in sync with nature. Christ's turning the water into wine was no breaking of the laws of nature. It was, and continues to be, unexplained scientifically, but that will not always be the case. At some point we will know and comprehend the laws by which that was done, and we'll at that point see that it was in accordance to natural law.

Once the miracle has wrought its intended effect upon us—that of witnessing of God, and strengthening our faith in Him—it has served its purpose. We therefore can be instructed in the laws by which it was done. Why would God not want us to know that? He just is careful not to give us the two in reverse sequence—knowledge of the law before the performing of the miracle—because the effect is no strengthening of faith. Hence scientists who discover laws prior to exercising faith see no miracle. And no God.

Why this massive outpouring of knowledge in the last 200 years? Were men less intelligent 6,000 years ago? Hardly. God is winding things up, preparing the world for the second coming. We have had 6000 years of miracles to witness of God and his existence. He is now revealing to men the laws by which he performed them, little by little. He is strengthening those who have already exercised faith (and who continue to do so) against the trials of our time. Hence the polarity—those who disbelieve are entrenching deeper into that mindset because all this wonderful knowledge is convincing them of that which they never received. And on the other hand, those who have accepted the witnesses and miracles of the past and present, are finding their faith in God being galvanized more and more with each new discovery.

That's my understanding.

Last edited by quietude : 09-24-2009 at 01:37 PM.
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  #7  
Old 09-24-2009, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I don't want to come across as hostile with our Mormon brother... I just want to ask a few questions... do Mormons believe scientific truth leads humanity closer to God? If that's the case, how do scientists compare to priests, for example, in regards to wisdom i.e. understanding the ways of God?

What about Miracles that break the laws of nature - Jesus walking on water... how is this "in sync" with science?
If I may interpose here Mark! Perfect science lines up perfectly with God. We do not have perfect understanding of science, nor do we have a perfect understanding of God. The only way to get a perfect understanding of science, in my opinion, is to have a perfect understanding of God. That perfect understanding of God can only come from God through His Son, Jesus.

Man has apparently accomplished marvels, but his ability to progress is hindered, limited and in error when he fails to understand the source and creator or everything. To the extent that any of us does not understand our Creator, we are hindered, limited and in error. Man is deluded as the OP indicated when he fails to have a love for the Truth.

Man's seemingly wondrous achievements without seeking God's kingdom first, amount to castles built upon foundations of sand that will pass away:

"But the rich [in the things of man, including the results of scientific works without the input of God], in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away." James 1:10

What we describe as great technological advances accomplished without God's input are ultimately nothing before Him.

"And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." Matt 21:19

Jesus summarized the law and the prophets in the two great commandments:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them," Matt 27:37-41

What man does without any part of God is utter darkness no matter how bright it may appear to our flesh!

Man may think that through science he is overcoming the world, but without Jesus no one is even scratching the surface toward overcoming. The ones who are beginning to overcome are those who are beginning to see His face.

John,
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  #8  
Old 09-24-2009, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

Quitetude,

Thanks for that explanation... it was interesting.

Quote:
Quitetude: They are totally in sync with nature. Christ's turning the water into wine was no breaking of the laws of nature. It was, and continues to be, unexplained scientifically, but that will not always be the case. At some point we will know and comprehend the laws by which that was done, and we'll at that point see that it was in accordance to natural law.
I would love to see the day when the scientific method can explain exactly how Christ walked on water or cast demons into pigs... I personally think that is beyond science. I believe a "miracle" is an event that breaks the natural laws, therefore, it is beyond our understanding.

I don't believe we can fully understand the nature of God (the "Creator") by studying His creation (or any other way)... God Himself is not confined by the laws of nature.

Quote:
Amadeus: If I may interpose here Mark! Perfect science lines up perfectly with God. We do not have perfect understanding of science, nor do we have a perfect understanding of God. The only way to get a perfect understanding of science, in my opinion, is to have a perfect understanding of God. That perfect understanding of God can only come from God through His Son, Jesus.
Well said

Last edited by Mark : 09-24-2009 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:29 PM
quietude
 
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I would love to see the day when the scientific method can explain exactly how Christ walked on water or cast demons into pigs... I personally think that is beyond science. I believe a "miracle" is an event that breaks the natural laws, therefore, it is beyond our understanding.
Here we differ in our understanding, at least about walking on water. Casting demons into pigs... definitely not natural laws, though I still believe one day comprehensible to us.

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I don't believe we can fully understand the nature of God (the "Creator") by studying His creation (or any other way)... God Himself is not confined by the laws of nature.
And here we differ as well, at least as to fully understanding the nature of God (I believe we can). I do agree, however, that we cannot obtain a full understanding through study.

Peace and blessings.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: The delusions of scientists

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quietude: And here we differ as well, at least as to fully understanding the nature of God (I believe we can). I do agree, however, that we cannot obtain a full understanding through study.
I'll have to reflect on this more... this passage does come to mind:

"Who knows better than the Son what it takes to meet God's standards and to have His approval? Jesus said: "All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him." (Matthew 11:27)"

So maybe through Christ we can fully know God... although, something tells me full comprehension is not possible. This is one of those things I would leave to theologians.
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