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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Science  > Evolution, A Seducer?

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Old 02-16-2015, 03:35 AM
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Default Evolution, A Seducer?

Just prior to looking into this subject, I hadn’t noticed how many Christians hold to some form of the evolution theory. Beyond the normal life cycle, my view doesn’t at all. I took a peek around the site on this. Surprisingly enough, I did not find (sorry if I missed yours) the references as I have here. Including that massive post #351 in Olson’s closed thread; “Evolution”. Please, bear with and continue.

Christians and “evolution”, a movement with a significant following. Is it possible the use of evolution and faith has in any way given way to disrespect that faith? I would like to remind the reader, we don’t have the luxury to apply it wherever we see fit, that is, where it seems to fit, or the amount of liberty we want it to fit. But rather, does the complication follow the text:
“And without faith it is impossible to please God” for “whatever is not from faith is sin.” (Hebrews 11:6, Romans 14:23)
To think how easily a Christian can begin to pick up on philosophies over time is incredible, as you know. My position is that this theory carries an allure that if truly honest, would oppose portions in the word of God. The science involved must not give into an allurement that carries such a large reputation as an easy one to be underestimated.

From what I see coming from the Deistic Evolutionist, Old-Earth Evolutionaries or Theistic Evolution creationists’, this being a mixture of evolution and a belief in God simply doesn’t offer a clear understanding of what it is when they say “evolution” and when it recognizes creation. A rather fuzzy variant, a vehicle of chance, a tool of God without any direct affiliation from the Father.

As Colossians points out:
“by him all things are held together.” (Colossians 1:17)
I do think it noteworthy that roughly half of the translations out there use one of the two words, either “held” or “consist”. Fair to say that the word itself, “held” right off the bat doesn’t sound entirely conducive to the movement of progression, but stationary. Let’s see this verb once from Strongs:
4921. sunistémi and sunistanó
Strong's Concordance
sunistémi and sunistanó: to commend, establish, stand near, consist
Original Word: συνίστημι, συνιστάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Short Definition: I commend, prove, am composed of, cohere
Definition: I place together, commend, prove, exhibit; instrans: I stand with; I am composed of, cohere.
What is furthermore said in James:
“Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.” (James 1:17)
Does evolution hold up well when asked; where does James say here that the original design intents of God change? Not that I have seen. Maybe someone could show me a fairly good reference to support that.

But consider, to continue in this theory can’t help but substitute faith with something prior, something that made or caused that thing to appear or happen, originating all the way back to the point of creation, and nothing else.

In James 1:17, what “good” thing was ever given from God to show the invariableness, the shiftlessness of v17 which would be contrary to evolution? For remember, it isn’t God the Father 17 is referring to, but that which proceeds from Him with the use of “with whom”.

What “good”? The very first reflection God gave upon creation itself and everything thereafter:

“And God saw that it was good” (Gen.1:4,10,12,18,21,25)
Not to forget the constant good the Father does as again Colossians points out:
“by him all things are held together.” (Colossians 1:17)

“, , by him all things subsist - Or are sustained, , The meaning is, that they are kept in the present state; their existence, order, and arrangement are continued by his power. If unsupported by him, they would fall into disorder, or sink back to nothing. - Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Or consider He who spoke not of himself, Jesus. If everything is in a state of constant redesign, then the Christ himself would have certainly recognized this when He cursed the fig tree.
"May no one ever eat fruit from you again!" – Jesus Christ (Mark 11:14)
But He didn't recognized the world and its ever-changing state, but rather it’s UN-“shifting shadow” as it was intended, the original design intents of the Creator. If we want to assume anything less, we obscure His reasoning He stood upon that day. Are we still willing to tow in the evolutionary thought to this shaky, contrary sound?

My conclusion is there simply isn't the smallest hint of scriptural support for this theory. For me to do so isn't that far from refusal to believe the Lord is capable of giving life to “Every good thing” created without “evolution” within the above considerations.

Mike.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

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Originally Posted by pryz View Post
[size="3"]My conclusion is there simply isn't the smallest hint of scriptural support for this theory.
Neither is there support for the theory of plate techtonics or the Special Theory of Relativity or quantum theory or nuclear fusion or...well, you get the idea.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

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Neither is there support for the theory of plate techtonics or the Special Theory of Relativity or quantum theory or nuclear fusion or...well, you get the idea.
Obviously, evolution is more opposed to what the bible teaches. Now adaptation of the species would be more acceptable, but the theory of evolution in addition to other creation theories, like the big bang theory directly conflict with scripture. They were "THEORIZED", not proclaimed as true science, and they have not been proved. Yet many in the scientific community and of course atheists would have all believe its firm science and that they are not subject to critical examination. Its merely people who want to think of a possible way creation could have come about without God. But all theories remain theories because they havent been proven.
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Old 02-18-2015, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

Thanks, appreciate that. Assuming I look fairly hemmed-in with my findings, but haven’t offered a mention to the mountain of archeological evidence (being the most significant form of support) and capturing the attention of those deep into the community of faith; what do I answer and resort to for myself with such findings? Another biblically-based theory.

Would that be faithlessly wrong of me to offer one? Understanding my being tied to the OP, I can’t afford to drop that ball in anything said theoretically or otherwise from here on, so, my two cents.

Bottom line, God grants a return to whatever is sown. How far would He be willing to reward to every “man according to his works”? Well, how far are they willing to believe against the sacred text (bible) is how far. No question, for its “every man”.

Bottom line ground level, is more according to the testing of many hearts from His own jealousy. You remember what God would send in II Thess 2:10 “because they did not receive the love of the truth”. Is the treatment we allow to creation itself going to assuredly be rewarded entirely different, going to escape a perception so we could “believe a lie”? I guess you get the general thought on that one.

Mike.
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Old 02-18-2015, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

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But all theories remain theories because they havent been proven.
Putting aside the issue of what a "theory" is in science (and I don't know how many times that has been or needs to be explained), couldn't we say the same thing about creation?
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Old 02-18-2015, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

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Putting aside the issue of what a "theory" is in science (and I don't know how many times that has been or needs to be explained), couldn't we say the same thing about creation?
Its funny how often atheists like to cringe to hear it, like saying dont remind us of science's inability to prove the non-existance of God. And creation would of course be, should be, a theory to those who dont believe in God, but they woudnt even give it that much credence, rather just ignore it, or make fun of it, sinse it doesnt fall within their own prefered explanation. Thats one of the problems with man's science, they tend to throw in their own desires for the outcome and fudge the figures to get closer to the desired result.
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Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

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Obviously, evolution is more opposed to what the bible teaches. Now adaptation of the species would be more acceptable, but the theory of evolution in addition to other creation theories, like the big bang theory directly conflict with scripture.
Yet in Ron’s discussion of the Big Bang, you offered some support for that very event being taught in scripture.

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Originally Posted by Soulheart3 View Post
Liked it, but I am sure its logic will escape our resident atheists.
Now it’s in direct conflict? I think you need to take a position and stick to it. And to whom would it be more acceptable? You? Notwithstanding that ‘adaption of the species’ is a definition of evolution in any case (you’ve just left out the bit about natural selection with which I assume you’d have no problem). The Vatican for one has zero problem with evolution. They’re attitude is that God did it and now we know how.

The majority of people who argue against it, in my not-too-limited experience, show a distinct lack of knowledge for something that they are so opposed to. For example, they think you can actually prove a theory.

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Originally Posted by Soulheart3 View Post
They were "THEORIZED", not proclaimed as true science, and they have not been proved.
Ahem…
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

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Originally Posted by Soulheart3 View Post
Its funny how often atheists like to cringe to hear it, like saying dont remind us of science's inability to prove the non-existance of God. And creation would of course be, should be, a theory to those who dont believe in God, but they woudnt even give it that much credence, rather just ignore it, or make fun of it, sinse it doesnt fall within their own prefered explanation. Thats one of the problems with man's science, they tend to throw in their own desires for the outcome and fudge the figures to get closer to the desired result.
Yep. Sometimes found working in denial of the Creator’s remarks from the very start of the OP. The record states, proofs to confirm the record of creation have appeared, and more are yet to come from the same record that was proven before. Is there not a shred to inspire you within to stop and consider? Just because you have the power to exert unbelief to cover our pre-determined yet temporary dilemma of “impossible” (v6), doesn’t remove that truth from being there.

You can still cover it till you are fed-up from covering it, but it is still there, and will remind you every day till you awaken to throw it back at Him. Man, it’s a hard road till you loosen your control to leave it to Him. You say it is not, but how would you know without having? Hey, all I’m asking is to don’t listen to me, but, that’s right, bundle the whole thing up from every corner, lift it out, and give it ALL to Jesus.
“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” - Jesus
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

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Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Yet in Ron’s discussion of the Big Bang, you offered some support for that very event being taught in scripture.

The majority of people who argue against it, in my not-too-limited experience, show a distinct lack of knowledge for something that they are so opposed to. For example, they think you can actually prove a theory.
Since you remember this so well, perhaps you can link to it, so that I might see what you are talking about?
__________________
Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: Evolution, A Seducer?

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Since you remember this so well, perhaps you can link to it, so that I might see what you are talking about?
You don't remember? Well, it was a few days back...

MIT Scientist offers proof of God

The point is not what I am talking about but the difficulty in deciphering what we can infer from what you are talking about. When you've refreshed your memory, let me know if you believe that science and scipture do correlate or not.

You can't walk both sides of the street at the same time.
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