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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Politics  > Christian Rationalism

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  #1  
Old 02-09-2019, 05:47 PM
eschator83's Avatar
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Default Christian Rationalism

I am gradually coming to the conclusion, and the hope, that the best chance for humans who seek to improve civilization and to forestall the End of Age is to grow in unity of Christian Rationalism. The denominations seem all to be failing consistently. Roman Catholicism has consistently failed to foster and support any successful civil or Church government. The political messages of Pope Francis against capitalism seem to me utterly appalling in view of the failures of Argentina and Italy under his leadership.
Let's discuss that in other thread.
It seems to me that Greek Orthodoxy, has functioned even worse than Rome in fostering successful governments, probably as much because of its fractured leadership structure as its theology. Old School Protestantism seems to be crumbling as we watch, and modern Evangelists, Fundamentalists, Ecumenists, and New Agers seem far more interested in throwing rocks and dirt than in seeking Christian consensus for civil or Church government.
Christian Rationalists have through-out history sought to understand and interpret the Gospel teachings that seem so difficult, and so unlikely to keep civilization alive:
1-Do not judge.
2-Do not oppose evil.
3-Do not store treasure on earth.
4-Do not worry about tomorrow.
I think only through the search for unity and compromise of Christian Rationalists can the US and the world resist the violence of communists, socialists, and muslim jihadists, and I pray all readers will consider this very seriously.
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2019, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschator83 View Post
I am gradually coming to the conclusion, and the hope, that the best chance for humans who seek to improve civilization and to forestall the End of Age is to grow in unity of Christian Rationalism.

I pray all readers will consider this very seriously.
If some readers see me as though commenting with an ambiguous opinion, I can assure you with fair certainty it was not the result of optional-thinking. I do try to bring all as essentials based in the usual sources.

One area of uncertainty I see within your post which I do appreciate 99% of is item no-2 – “Do not oppose evil”.

While it is clearly taught in the scriptures it encompasses our day-to-day existence and we cannot escape its presence though we are not to be entangled in it either. Whether or not we resist to that end is further detailed in Rom 13 for the general tranquility of ‘civilization’.

On the opposite end of that resistance is the non-conformist denominations in which such as in the middle of last December, 300-400 Quaker / Friends Christians were at the southern-border protesting everything from securing the border to detainment to deportation.

The scriptures are not kind to the notion of picking up the traitor’s cause. Here again, un-Christian pacifism will judge me for a judgment as though it were my own and blunders also points 1 and 4. It is this type of casual approach to scriptural application that has led us up to this very unfortunate garden as you penned it.

If these rational things are attended to as positively designed, judgement would return to the house of God and not to the world which prevents secure item 4.

IMO.

.

Last edited by pryz : 02-10-2019 at 06:18 AM.
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2019, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

1-Do not judge.
It isnt wrong to judge, its just that we need to judge fairly, if you are unable to do so, then avoid it, but LEARN how to do it fairly


2-Do not oppose evil.
This is definitely wrong, if you see your brother doing something evil and do not even say anything to him about it, in warning, then you are guilty as well for not loving your brother enough to share the truth with him. Just do it in a firm but loving way.


3-Do not store treasure on earth.
This is good, and although its okay to store things you will need one day, simply storing "treasure" up, something that has no value other than being a hedge against bad times, is not trusting in God. Although storing up money or treasure with a goal in mind to use it once you reach a goal to buy something useful is also okay.


4-Do not worry about tomorrow.
This is good as well, you can plan ahead, just dont fret over it.
__________________
Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

I am very grateful for both responses, but curious how you formed your opinions and whether they are formed primarily through Revelation, ie through Spirit either in Scripture, or other Church teaching, or some other authority you trust (which I think might be the Holy Spirit directly or indirectly to you)? Or are your opinions from reason, ie are you willfully being Christian Rationalists?
I think you both agree that self-defense can be justified even though Jesus did not practice it, other than perhaps by hiding from threatening crowds, and perhaps with the whip (or cord with knots) in the temple. And seemed to speak against opposition to evil(doers) of many or all types. Could you please comment further? Do you think priests should be forbidden from combat, but perhaps not lay people? Do you find the answer in Scripture?
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

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Originally Posted by eschator83 View Post
I am very grateful for both responses, but curious how you formed your opinions and whether they are formed primarily through Revelation, ie through Spirit either in Scripture, or other Church teaching, or some other authority you trust (which I think might be the Holy Spirit directly or indirectly to you)? Or are your opinions from reason, ie are you willfully being Christian Rationalists?
I think you both agree that self-defense can be justified even though Jesus did not practice it, other than perhaps by hiding from threatening crowds, and perhaps with the whip (or cord with knots) in the temple. And seemed to speak against opposition to evil(doers) of many or all types. Could you please comment further? Do you think priests should be forbidden from combat, but perhaps not lay people? Do you find the answer in Scripture?
Thanks e-83, I do, shouldn’t we? At least, that’s one place.

I was hoping others would shed light by now, oh-well.

2 Tim 3:16 describes what length of scripture is to be used, “All” as in all and if we cut through to the most original meaning there, we would find that it meant all. What scripture doesn’t describe is every methodology used to bring the word to us short of “inspiration of God”. So then, back to the word and the fruit of the Spirit, saying disregard the “fearfull” yet drawing from “peace”, we have “hope” to conclude!

If “All scripture is profitable, , for correction, , in righteousness”, then from the perilous “affliction we experienced in Asia; for we were so utterly, unbearably crushed that we despaired of life itself” and since the depth of such trial throughout scripture never spared the sons of God (Priest) to flee the fearfulness of “I have fought with beasts at Ephesus” has many interpreters so inconvenienced by trying to maintain contextual criteria they analyze themselves a mountain of questions and still consider this to be the proper hearing of faith.

(Revelation 21:8, 2 Corinthians 1:8, 1 Corinthians 15:32)

But then, they who contest such would surely advise differently, some such thing as fleeing the persecutors would not stop till the Son of Man comes. But that does not stop the appearing of the “ministers of God” whom maintain good civil-order either.

So yes, as the word makes clear these two things will come before us to agree upon,

Persecution
Power

Persecution cares nothing for the Power until that boundary is seen against society as described. Nevertheless, part of that distributing effect has so little to do with your heavily partitioned “Or” and “or”s. If God gave the Power, God also gave the Church gifts. If the sword is raised to supplant peace wherever “evil” (Rom 13:4) is found, then the message of the Gospel of peace door is open to act with any such duty God has laid upon that servant.

Where can you possibly conclude against the Priest as behaving inconsiderate towards sound doctrine.

.
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2019, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

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Originally Posted by eschator83 View Post
......Roman Catholicism has consistently failed to foster and support any successful civil or Church government......
Do you think that is really the Church's role?
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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #7  
Old 02-15-2019, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Do you think that is really the Church's role?
Ordinarily, would seem to be the proper course taken, I surely did for a good long while. That is if a Church’s role were to defend a solitary organization that did not subject any of its subordinates to whatever disorder happened to take place, but this just isn’t being presented, she is “many”, a composite nature of members who don’t all run along relative norms. Some, being so diverse to assist other members by the gifts of “mercy” or “helps” or, as in this case in Rom 13:4 for instance,
“They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.”
Wherein do we find the gifted sower of the word brush-aside the gifted civil servant? Where do we find the gifted civil servant being prevented from carrying out the functions of the altar or the Lord’s table?

.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

It is obviously a complicated subject. In a perfect world the church would rule the world but we obviously don't live in a perfect world, not to mention the fact that you Protestants might have a problem with that too. Reality is that we live in a pluralistic world which means the government that works best is the government that recognizes everybody's right to worship as they choose. Free will has its place in government too. In such a government, the best thing the Church can do is what in Christ's intended it to do and that is to be a witness to the world. Don't try to control government, but rather be a light that attracts people to God. Let government do what government does, build roads, telephones, sewers, etc, and let the Church be in the business of forgiving sinners.
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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2019, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

Who is asked to control through V-4? It appears to me if there ever was an agreement here there would be no response of recruitment, and you would not have to “try” if you and I and say the patience of years of agreement with the message (and not surrendering to govt) would reap an unstoppable blessing from God to rule as stated! No more than stated and certainly no less to act concertedly would be driven by heaven itself.

“Perfect world”? Once again the Author has spoken.

.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Christian Rationalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
Who is asked to control through V-4? It appears to me if there ever was an agreement here there would be no response of recruitment, and you would not have to “try” if you and I and say the patience of years of agreement with the message (and not surrendering to govt) would reap an unstoppable blessing from God to rule as stated! No more than stated and certainly no less to act concertedly would be driven by heaven itself.

“Perfect world”? Once again the Author has spoken.

.
I swear, I never understand 3/4 of what you write. Why do you write in such a weird style. Are you taking a night class in composition and torturing us all with practice writings?
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- Saint Pope John Paul II
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