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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Christianity & Politics  > States who state, WORTHY

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  #1  
Old 12-08-2017, 05:35 AM
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Default States who state, WORTHY

Of all the continued dialog over Capital Punishment, citing repeat precedence, reason upon reason, have we entered another death, one that renders us “fruitless” of establishing things from simple reason? Really, is it possible that the physically condemned share the same vanity of wrongdoing with the improper handling of truth that in turn, make them spiritually flawed?

Or if you will, take the two following biblical instances, does “worthy” take precedence over the Lord's resistance of CP “service”?
“Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things [sin] are worthy of death, ,”
“Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God.”

(Romans 1:32, John 16:32)
Some say that this “debate is not just about capital punishment, but about what it means to be a Christian.” As it stands, it is entirely possible for Christians to lose their composure in the Lord over simple discussion sometimes, quite possible these things as well just as it is written,
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.


(1 Timothy 1:5-11)
I admit, I am fairly unschooled on this subject, but it seems if some have lost composure of “sincere faith”, then the issue will fail God’s blessing and end up where I think we are, “fruitless discussion”. For didn’t the Apostle open with the most admirable NT composure of the Gospel also show us to have happened in his lifetime suffered OT losses?

So, what is your feeling for what God has for us to enter into an understanding on; the stiffest “rebuke before all so that others may fear” possible, or, no right whatsoever for the state to cancel an un-stable person’s full ability to make peace with God in some of the more sudden executions?

Which would be the proper CP outlook, instantaneous, drawn-out with the popular running out a full-list of appeals, or fully abolish this form of punishment?

Thanks for looking and any and all comments!

.
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2017, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

I know for a fact, after watching an extensive documentary including death-row inmate interviews, those who comment sometimes themselves commit themselves,
Quote:
"I know I deserve to die."
But don't we all deserve to die? We are indebted and we know, but before committing violent crime, they likely did not have that knowledge, and yet some come from Christian homes who do. Many Christian families have policy-making family members. if there is error that holds back God's blessing, it is with those who hold the truth and haven't secured confirmation for it.

.

Last edited by pryz : 12-08-2017 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

Christ committed Himself to capital punishment.

Although innocent.

OT capital punishment was commanded.

Secular problems call for secular reasoning.
For some criminals it may be due sentencing for the crime.

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
Christ committed Himself to capital punishment.

Although innocent.

OT capital punishment was commanded.

Secular problems call for secular reasoning.
For some criminals it may be due sentencing for the crime.

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
Well yes that’s true.

But if what your eluding to was securely established in heaven as the Father’s will, wouldn’t it read something to the effect of,
“Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you [incorrectly] will think he is offering service to God.”
Yes they are mostly and yet should always be secular, and many parts of the world still welcome the influential reasoning of Christianity.

.
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  #5  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
Of all the continued dialog over Capital Punishment, citing repeat precedence, reason upon reason, have we entered another death, one that renders us “fruitless” of establishing things from simple reason? Really, is it possible that the physically condemned share the same vanity of wrongdoing with the improper handling of truth that in turn, make them spiritually flawed?

Or if you will, take the two following biblical instances, does “worthy” take precedence over the Lord's resistance of CP “service”?
“Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things [sin] are worthy of death, ,”
“Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God.”

(Romans 1:32, John 16:32)
Some say that this “debate is not just about capital punishment, but about what it means to be a Christian.” As it stands, it is entirely possible for Christians to lose their composure in the Lord over simple discussion sometimes, quite possible these things as well just as it is written,
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.


(1 Timothy 1:5-11)
I admit, I am fairly unschooled on this subject, but it seems if some have lost composure of “sincere faith”, then the issue will fail God’s blessing and end up where I think we are, “fruitless discussion”. For didn’t the Apostle open with the most admirable NT composure of the Gospel also show us to have happened in his lifetime suffered OT losses?

So, what is your feeling for what God has for us to enter into an understanding on; the stiffest “rebuke before all so that others may fear” possible, or, no right whatsoever for the state to cancel an un-stable person’s full ability to make peace with God in some of the more sudden executions?

Which would be the proper CP outlook, instantaneous, drawn-out with the popular running out a full-list of appeals, or fully abolish this form of punishment?

Thanks for looking and any and all comments!

.
.

My belief is, the greater majority of people are satisfied with the statues que,
on any given question, until the (Question) affects them personally, at which point you will be able to obtain, a most definite opinion.

An example would be.

Two people, one Opposes Capitol Punishment, the other is in Favor of it.
Each one of these people have a loved one murdered.
Will both of these people retain their once held opinions, or will those opinions change?
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2017, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
Well yes that’s true.

But if what your eluding to was securely established in heaven as the Father’s will, wouldn’t it read something to the effect of,
“Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you [incorrectly] will think he is offering service to God.”
Yes they are mostly and yet should always be secular, and many parts of the world still welcome the influential reasoning of Christianity.

.
When you say "States", for this verse to apply, the state would have to have capital punishment laws for blasphemy for testifying by the Holy Spirit that Christ is the Son of God, or God, or laws prohibiting mentioning Christ at all, being punishable by death.

The Work of the Holy Spirit
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. 2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God.

Which states have capital punishment laws that will enforce them for such things?
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2017, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
When you say "States", for this verse to apply, the state would have to have capital punishment laws for blasphemy for testifying by the Holy Spirit that Christ is the Son of God, or God, or laws prohibiting mentioning Christ at all, being punishable by death.

The Work of the Holy Spirit
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. 2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God.

Which states have capital punishment laws that will enforce them for such things?
Not sure if I’m addressing you correctly on that, for as most of us recall, without personal encumbrance, “all things are lawful for me”. And with such a personal demanding (for most) issue at the state-level, spiritual resources will be most-assuredly be tapped from than any other.

In my state, the Warden is in ongoing council for his own spiritual bolstering from his pastor. Back at the max-sec prison, he in turn is in constant one-on-one council with his death-row inmates in doing the best they can to cope. I would again, most assuredly believe that in most cases, the state-policymaker would be so compelled as well, which puts the bulk of the issue back into the handling of the word of God. This renews dependence on discernment as though it were an old-wound that unknowingly turned proud and remains a challenge to contain.

.
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  #8  
Old 12-09-2017, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
.

My belief is, the greater majority of people are satisfied with the statues que,
on any given question, until the (Question) affects them personally, at which point you will be able to obtain, a most definite opinion.

An example would be.

Two people, one Opposes Capitol Punishment, the other is in Favor of it.
Each one of these people have a loved one murdered.
Will both of these people retain their once held opinions, or will those opinions change?
Unless I'm mistaken, did my point to Cinder address "affects them personally" to some degree?
.
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  #9  
Old 12-09-2017, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
Not sure if I’m addressing you correctly on that, for as most of us recall, without personal encumbrance, “all things are lawful for me”.
.
Book, passage reference?

Quote:
And with such a personal demanding (for most) issue at the state-level, spiritual resources will be most-assuredly be tapped from than any other.

In my state, the Warden is in ongoing council for his own spiritual bolstering from his pastor.
That would be something difficult considering his secular position and faith.

Quote:
Back at the max-sec prison, he in turn is in constant one-on-one council with his death-row inmates in doing the best they can to cope.
Again, difficult but I don't expect they are on death-row for what Jesus was warning the disciples of. Surely?
Freedom of religion legislation should apply?
If you were speaking of an Islamic State then that could be likely.


Quote:
I would again, most assuredly believe that in most cases, the state-policymaker would be so compelled as well, which puts the bulk of the issue back into the handling of the word of God.
Again, you would have to allude to which state you were suggesting for those particular scriptures of the Word of God to apply.
I don't think you live in an Islamic State, where your warden is, as it would be difficult to be outspoken on Islam as you are.


Quote:
This renews dependence on discernment as though it were an old-wound that unknowingly turned proud and remains a challenge to contain.

On death-row wounds would be abound, with most involved, and attached relationships, as Jim suggests, but the context of discernment with the dependence of the scriptures involved should be renewed, yes.

I do, however, have a better understanding of your expressed soulful concerns and why you applied such scriptures where the secular and spiritual are intertwined. They are what they are, and may change, or not, under the sovereignty of God.
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  #10  
Old 12-09-2017, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: States who state, WORTHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
Unless I'm mistaken, did my point to Cinder address "affects them personally" to some degree?
.
.
Unless I am mistaken, did I respond to anything you said to Cinder, or did I only post my Opinion to what you wrote as the OP.

JIM
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