[jrodmc]

Originally Posted by Ray83plus

The church I attend feels the same way you as you do Mike and I feel justified in in following the words of Paul in both [1 Cor.16:1-2] and [2 Cor.9:7].

The tithe as required in the OT refered to grain and meat offerings to the priests and moneys in the form af taxation to support the temple. Each one should pray and seek Gods wisdom as to whether to partisipate in offerings to the Lord and how much he decides to give in his heart, and not give grudgingly and not out of necessity or under compulsion, for God loves a CHEERFUL giver [2 Cor.9:7]

Excellent post. And the one NT example of giving that stands out in my extremely limited mind is Ananias and Sapphira. Now was the value of the property 10% or their total income? 25%? 75%? No, they were struck down for not laying the entire amount at the disciples feet; it was the position of their deceitful hearts in their giving, not some pre-concieved percentage of funds they were required by law to lay down. And who was commended by Christ for giving? The poor widow who cast in EVERYTHING SHE HAD, not 10%. And yet Jesus still pointed out that the Pharisees tithed of their mint and cumin, but neglected the greater things; justice, mercy, good faith.

What I've found almost nauseating, especially in many mainline denominations, is this Wharton Business School MBA mindset that can actually conscience utilizing a verse taken out of context to coerce people into supporting 'holy' spreadsheets of buildings and pastors and preachers. Our church leadership actually calls tithing "your obedience to the Lord." Tithing is a simplistic way to drive revenue for your 'Jesus' business, plain and simple. It's also incredible the parallels that can be drawn between this 'give to get' mindset and the Word of Faith cults.

And just a disclaimer for those who are tempted to say "AHA! See, Now you're cherry picking your scriptures!" Tithing is not wrong. Using the concept of tithing for coercive giving is wrong. The point is God wants your heart, and where your treasure is, there your heart is also. By extension, He doesn't want just 10% of your heart. He wants all of it. It all belongs to God, not your local assembly building of believers and the local shepherd.

Originally Posted by acanthus

If not, you are truly robbing GOD.
Mal 3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Tithing is a law. Like any other law, there is an automatic cause and effect relationship. Why do you keep the law of gravity? Because if you break it, you know that there will be an immediate, visible and sometimes painful effect. If you jump off a 10-story building, there is no doubting the consequences. This is why you would never consider doing this.

Tithing is no different. It is a law. If we break it, it turns and “breaks” us. But if we keep it, then it “keeps” us. However, there is one fundamental difference between tithing, which is a spiritual law, and physical laws. Breaking any spiritual law does not usually bring an immediate effect on the person doing it. There is a delayed penalty—but there is a penalty, nonetheless.

I learned to tithe from my youth and have done it for a better part of my life. I've had a lot of different teachings on it and some that have been good. The best teaching that I have had is that I have not lacked in my life; God has taken care of me. I am not speaking of excess but I've not wanted for anything. I believe that there is something to this. I have been part of a church most of my life and continue to be and really have not had a problem with tithing. I don't give because I feel I have to but because I desire to. In regard to Tammy who asked about a claiming on your taxes. I believe it is being a good steward to claim it on your taxes. Most often any church I've gone to has given a statement at the end of the year. Honoring your husband in this is honoring God; God will bless you for it. Trust God to use your husband where he is at... keep him in prayer.

[winsome]

Tithing was an OT practice and was 10% of agricultural produce NOT income. This is why Jesus says about the Pharisees:
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier things of the law: judgment and mercy and fidelity.(Mt 23:23)

It was for the Levites and upkeep of the Temple because they had no land allocation of their own. Later, as the king took over responsibility for the Temple, it was subsumed into general taxation.

There is no NT obligation to tithe, 10% of income or any other amount.

As Bruce said 100% is the Lord’s. As it happens my wife and I do use 10% of income as a guideline for our giving (whether to church or charities). And we keep 90% of His generosity for ourselves. But that’s our choice. It’s not prescriptive.

[Ray83plus]

Originally Posted by BruceG

I appreciate your post on tithing but here is the problem. The law worketh death. It is sad but most Christians have stumbled on a huge stumbling stone...the law. The law is not how we follow and please God now, it is by faith and faith alone. The 10 commandments were not to guide us... they were a stopgap measure until grace fully appeared. This is something you will not have heard before...we are not expected to keep the 10 commandments, let alone tithing. (This is where most people pick ups stones, LOL). The purpose of the 19 commandments was not to be a guide on how to live, it was a revelation on the need to die. It's purpose was to let us see the utter futility of ever truly keeping the law as a way to please God. The pharisees felt they were doing a great job, and externally they were, BUT, their hearts were far from God. So in order to break them of their pride and arrogance, he said that if they broke ONE law they were guilty of all of them. Ouch. Then he said this. "You have heard it said 'Do not commit adultery.' But I say unto you, If you have simply looked on a woman with lust in your heart, you have already committed adultery with her. "Double ouch.

Listen, this is GREAT news, because he has shown us his new covenant, the covenant that was promised in Ezekial (I think!) that said "and in that day, I will put MY spirit within them, and I will CAUSE them to walk in my statutes." Salvation is ALL God. All he asks of us is to yieldedly belive His promises. The result? A miraculous abiding in him unlike anything we have experienced..all day, every day, and sins shall NOT have dominion over us.

Back to tithing. Look in the new testament and see where tithing is mentioned. it is not. If it was still to be important, i would think the church would have recieved ample instruction in it. What was it replaced by? God's work still must go on. It was replaced by something far more powerful and far more fruitful...the freewill offering. Once Christians discover the glorious liberty of the Children of God, the miraculous walk He promises, trust mw. 10% is not the Lord's. 100% is. We become so excited about our God that His work becomes what we lives for, what we eat and beathe and sleep.

I hope this make sense. I am fully aware how untaught these truths are. I simply ask that you pray over what i have said and let God speak to you. God bless and if you care to share back and forth, i would be more than willing to offer what God in His mercy has shared with me.

Love in Christ,

Bruce

If you care to read a good article on tithing Bruce log on to the "Power of Faith Ministries" and scrole down to "the truth about tithing".

[lifethatwins]

Actually it was mentioned in the new testament once, but said it had been done away with. Unfortuanately i forgot where it was, Now giving out of love has never been done away with, Nor Spirit led giving, Im with you all the way shure id like to discuss such matters. Not only that im in 100 percent agreement the money is all his and belongs to him the way he desires to spend it

[PastorB]

There seems to be much debate on the subject of tithing. I was raised in a Baptist church where tithing was the rule.

I can only speak to my experience in tithing. I found I cannot out give God. If we take the bible as the whole counsel of God and apply the teachings of Jesus with regards to the law of love. The outcome is quite easy to arrive at.

We are taught to love God with all that we have and to treat our neighbor as ourselves.

What is the tithe used for at your church? The funny thing is a lot of people dont want to tithe because it lines the pastor's pockets. I would submit to you that most pastors are not rich. We are all responsible to be involved in the fellowship where God places us.

If you are concerned that the money received at the church is misused then get involved. I am sure you will quickly find that the church's money runs out at the end of the month much like yours does.

Many people are concerned about how much the pastor is getting. Is your pastor serving the congregation? Does he live above the standard of the rest of the congregation? Does he have to work another job to pay his bills and take care of his family? Do you expect him to do the work of a pastor?

The bible says a workman is worthy of his hire. The modern day church uses tithes and offerings to pay the electricity, the pastor's pay, the church note, the outreach program, the teaching materials, supporting missionaries.

If you have a better idea, I am sure the pastor and the elders/leaders would like to hear it.

If not paying tithes comes down to you not wanting to give, then therein is the problem. If you want to find a scripture that tells you to give your tithes and offerings in the New Testament, here it is:

Mark 12:28-34 It is through the local congregation that the gospel is spread in the community. If you believe that the pastor of the church you attend is called by God, then trust in the Lord, that He speaks to your pastor and the pastor is guiding the congregation in the right direction.

If this is not the case, then ask God where he wants you to attend.

As much as we say others love money, is it our love of money that hinders us from giving to further the gospel?

Pastor B