[Wholemeal]

There have been preconceptions that i've had with our religion .My current state of confusion is based upon these.
1) You must not get divorced, for it is blasphemy. I'm not sure what verse this is in the bible but it's always been something i thought christianity upheld.
2) No sex before marriage.

Recently, i've been looking forward into my life. I want to marry and have children with a spouse i love very much. But over the years, i've come to realise that no matter what happens love is fickle. If i found a woman i loved very much and i married her, what happens when i stop? There is no foreseeing this. And then we are bound to an unhappy marriage. I will most likely be unhappy and most likely develop depression. Does god want me to suffer because i chose the wrong spouse?

I guess the solution to my dilema is to not marry at all. And i guess it means i will have to give up my dreams of being a father. But without a spouse i will die lonely and i cannot have children until i am married. Either way, it seems like i will be unhappy in both cases. Maybe i must be unhappy here to reach heaven. Maybe we were put here to suffer so that we may have an eternity of wonder. But than what about the people who enjoy life? I can see that this confusion has many premises and if you attack the core premise my concerns all fall appart. Please clarify this with me.

Originally Posted by Wholemeal

There have been preconceptions that i've had with our religion .My current state of confusion is based upon these.
1) You must not get divorced, for it is blasphemy. I'm not sure what verse this is in the bible but it's always been something i thought christianity upheld.
2) No sex before marriage.

Recently, i've been looking forward into my life. I want to marry and have children with a spouse i love very much. But over the years, i've come to realise that no matter what happens love is fickle. If i found a woman i loved very much and i married her, what happens when i stop? There is no foreseeing this. And then we are bound to an unhappy marriage. I will most likely be unhappy and most likely develop depression. Does god want me to suffer because i chose the wrong spouse?

I guess the solution to my dilema is to not marry at all. And i guess it means i will have to give up my dreams of being a father. But without a spouse i will die lonely and i cannot have children until i am married. Either way, it seems like i will be unhappy in both cases. Maybe i must be unhappy here to reach heaven. Maybe we were put here to suffer so that we may have an eternity of wonder. But than what about the people who enjoy life? I can see that this confusion has many premises and if you attack the core premise my concerns all fall appart. Please clarify this with me.

1) As for sex before marriage, that is what the Bible calls "Fornication". The Bible is pretty clear on that: Is is a mortal sin.

2) As for divorce, I would direct you to read this: LINK

[DrFrank]

First I would like to strongly recommend that you immediately change your mental perspective.You appear to be in a very depressing conflict very reminiscent of the conflict I found myself in when I was trying to decide whether to start a military career in spite of the dedication to mass murder that this would entail.It was a painful time of questioning and seeking God's will but the Holy Spirit finally explained to me that killing and maiming to support corrupt governments (or in the case of Iraq and a
Afghanistan,Christian despising fundamentalist Muslim moral cesspools) was nothing but blasphemy.Following this instruction from God He set me on a moral path that totally changed my life and brought me into a close personal relationship with Jesus.

There are two ways to resolve your conflict and I suggest that you utilize both of them.The first is to follow biblical teachings which shockingly few Christians do these days.Just think what a much improved world we would have if our government followed Jesus' teaching to "love your enemies" which would render the "war on terrorism" unnecessary and counter-productive because love changes enemies into friends.

In checking out the Bible you will find that divorce is NOT ruled out,as you now believe, if your spouse engages in adultery.

Matthew 5:32 (King James Version)

32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

However divorce is not a good solution to marital problems because it is a legal proceeding that God does NOT recognize which is why divorced individuals are not allowed to marry a second time, or in the case of the Bible-thumping preacher I ran into a few weeks ago who kept claiming that Catholics really are not Christians;three times.

Your desire to have children is a God-given desire but as it should be obvious in this heavily over-populated resource-shrinking world,creating new children is one of the most selfish and morally irresponsible decisions that the human mind can perceive.Want to know how to satisfy your emotional nurturing instincts while at the same time making a moral decision that will meet an acute emergency need? ADOPT ONE OR SEVERAL HAITIAN ORPHANS.Your marital status will not prevent you from doing so.Your concern about developing depression if you fail to make the right decision,this one in particular,is well-founded because the words in capitol letters were given to me by the Holy Spirit.

As you study the New Testament,you will find numerous verses that will tell you to remain unmarried because it will allow you to devote more time and resources to the service of God.The Apostle Paul specifically recommended marriage only for those who could not control their sexual impulses while Jesus made it very clear that such people were not fit for heaven.It seems that after His experience with Lucifer He has developed a low tolerance level for those who have trouble controlling their impulses.
Luke 20:34-36 (King James Version)

34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


The second way to resolve your conflict is to keep praying on a regular basis asking God to tell you what He wants you to do with your life.You're lucky,God has already given you a partial answer,one that will keep you busily occupied with the joyful expectation of serving humanity while following one of God's instructions for your life: ADOPT ONE OR SEVERAL HAITIAN ORPHANS.

[Amadeus]

The solution is neither to remain single nor to immediately look for a spouse. The solution is to find God's will for you.

When two people marry the following verse provides guidance as to who to marry and who not to marry, but it does not tell you whether to marry or not!

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" I Cor 6:14

In the following verse Paul speaks of himself as being unmarried and suggests it as a good way to go:

"I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I." I Cor 7:8

Paul does not mandate that celibacy though:

"But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn." I Cor 7:9

Paul continues with more advice assuring us that we will have trouble if we marry:

"But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you." I Cor 7:28

My own advice is that since you apparently want to get married, ask God for help. Ask Him to supply you with the mate that He has for you, if it is His will for you to marry. Remember to always ask God for anything in accord with His will rather than your own. He will not fail you, but do not be in a hurry. You must learn to trust and to have patience.


"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1

Look always for God's time, rather than your own!

Jesus did not come to put the heavy burden of the "LAW" upon you, so that if you slip in some way you are doomed! Blasphemy is not in definition anything to do with divorce...divorce is not the unpardonable sin. I have a major testimony about divorce...a long and hard and painful life acocunt....in the end the Lord did show me (after divorce) that He loved me the same...no less, and had not taken from me his Spirit, the Callings, anointing, and He "saw" me still the same as always....as a daughter he loves.

Other than this...I tell you, this Life IS a fight of and for your faith. Satan is always trying to steal your faith. We may as well know now that in this life we...."MUst Be Forever Vigilant"....God spoke this to us here once...We walk "by" Faith because we do not always know where we are going in life but we "can" trust God...he will lead us even when we can't see.

Try not to focus on what bad can happen...but put your hope and trust in God to make all things possible and do not lean always on your own power and understanding...but Trust God to "Keep you" in this life....while we really do not always have the knowledge, understanding, and power to keep ourselves and he will. He is called our "keeper."

You are learning in this time in your life what a Life of Faith is. And through your whole life you will always be learning and growing...the Author and Finisher of your faith is Always at work in you....so don't regret if you do not feel or seem perfect today....none of us are yet...but in the process, which the Lord is leading and working in you....He does prepare you for what is coming next in your life....so look to see and recognize what he is teaching you today and how he is preparing you...not to be fully perfect to be able to handle life perfectly....but line upon line, precept upon precept....he is carrying you a little further all the time...Rejoice in this.

[quote=Wholemeal;69817]

1) You must not get divorced, for it is blasphemy. I'm not sure what verse this is in the bible but it's always been something i thought christianity upheld.

My understanding is that adultery is the exception; if a spouse is unfaithful, divorce is acceptable. In my opinion, being unfaithful would include such things as habitual abuse within the family, or habitual substance abuse.

Recently, i've been looking forward into my life. I want to marry and have children with a spouse i love very much. But over the years, i've come to realise that no matter what happens love is fickle. If i found a woman i loved very much and i married her, what happens when i stop?

Why do you believe "love is fickle?" How have you reached this conclusion? Have you been fickle in love relationships, yourself? Have others that you've loved abandoned you? Did your parents have a failed marriage? Or is it how you perceive society? I think it is admirable that you'd like to marry and have children with a spouse that you "love very much." Why do you assume that you will stop loving this person? Is it possible you simply have not found the right person yet?

There is no foreseeing this. And then we are bound to an unhappy marriage. I will most likely be unhappy and most likely develop depression. Does god want me to suffer because i chose the wrong spouse?

I believe that in marriage, God would like us to learn many things. Of course, a spouse must be chosen very carefully. All marriages have ups and downs, times of extreme closeness and times of alienation. Love is best looked at as a verb. Love is something we commit to do. Marriage is a binding commitment to love someone through everything life will throw at you. Sticking with a marriage through many years teaches us all the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, thoughtfulness, and self-control. The foundation of marriage, in my opinion, is forgiveness. Forgiveness is key. If you enter a relationship with the attitude that it's destined to fail, it very well may. Try to be positive. Of course, there will be down times, but if you forsake marriage entirely to avoid the rough spots, you will never know the beauty that can also manifest in a marriage well-lived: intimacy with another person that is so strong the two do, in fact, become one in many ways; the joy of shared memories stored up over the course of a lifetime; the freedom of love expressed unconditionally; joy shared and amplified by the sharing, the comfort of having someone to mourn with when the season to mourn arrives.

Even raising children has ups and downs; we relish and set to memory the good; we overcome, learn from, and forgive the obstacles. Life is not easy. It is a challenge.

I guess the solution to my dilema is to not marry at all. And i guess it means i will have to give up my dreams of being a father. But without a spouse i will die lonely and i cannot have children until i am married.

Why give up dreams? If you never marry you may not only die lonely, you may very well live lonely. Don't expect perfection from marriage. Marriage and child-rearing are real-life activities. The initial emotional and chemical highs will level off, but with determination a different, more stable, lower-keyed devotion takes over. You accept each other as fully human, and learn to love despite the flaws you find in one another. A good marriage is work and it takes dedication and active participation from both partners.

Either way, it seems like i will be unhappy in both cases.

Ahh, so true, but you may find happiness either way, too. Some people chose to be single, and apparantly are happy doing so. I think you want a relationship, but expect failure. Try to expect success, despite the inevitable set-backs. Either way, you will find times of happiness and times of sadness.

Maybe i must be unhappy here to reach heaven.

Yes, you must be unhappy at times. We are all unhappy at times, some more than others. To reach heaven we persevere and we overcome. You must know God and be teachable above all things to reach heaven.

Maybe we were put here to suffer so that we may have an eternity of wonder.

We were put here to learn. We suffer, we have joy, we have pain, we have sorrow . . . When we reach that "eternity of wonder," we will be so much the wiser. When we return to God, forsaking Him will never again be looked upon as an option, because we will know the darkness of life without Him.

But than what about the people who enjoy life?

People who "enjoy life" take the good with the bad. It's a matter of focus. Will you focus on the bad or the good?

I can see that this confusion has many premises and if you attack the core premise my concerns all fall appart.

What is the "core premise?" I think that if you lose your fear of failure, all your concerns will fall apart. So what if you fail once in awhile? Doesn't everyone? Every day is a new day. Start over. Try again.

My husband and I have been married for 30 years. We grew up together. We've had good times and bad. We've loved and despised one another. We been so close our hearts beat as one and we've been so distant we've looked upon one another as strangers. But we've kept our commitment. We fall apart, but each time we come back together, the bond is stronger. Nothing can defeat us. The shared memories are perhaps the most precious gift of our marriage. Would I do it all again? Of course. Would I do many things differently? Of course, but this is only because of all I've learned.

You can find the right person, Simon. You can commit to love. You can have a good marriage--not perfect--but very good. You can be a father--not perfect--but the best you can be. Commit to learn from mistakes and move forward with courage, one day at a time. Keep your hand in God's and He will teach you many things.

Christ's Love to You, Simon~
Nancy

[EvanT]

Originally Posted by preachergirl

Jesus did not come to put the heavy burden of the "LAW" upon you, so that if you slip in some way you are doomed! Blasphemy is not in definition anything to do with divorce...divorce is not the unpardonable sin. I have a major testimony about divorce...a long and hard and painful life acocunt....in the end the Lord did show me (after divorce) that He loved me the same...no less, and had not taken from me his Spirit, the Callings, anointing, and He "saw" me still the same as always....as a daughter he loves.

Other than this...I tell you, this Life IS a fight of and for your faith. Satan is always trying to steal your faith. We may as well know now that in this life we...."MUst Be Forever Vigilant"....God spoke this to us here once...We walk "by" Faith because we do not always know where we are going in life but we "can" trust God...he will lead us even when we can't see.

Try not to focus on what bad can happen...but put your hope and trust in God to make all things possible and do not lean always on your own power and understanding...but Trust God to "Keep you" in this life....while we really do not always have the knowledge, understanding, and power to keep ourselves and he will. He is called our "keeper."

You are learning in this time in your life what a Life of Faith is. And through your whole life you will always be learning and growing...the Author and Finisher of your faith is Always at work in you....so don't regret if you do not feel or seem perfect today....none of us are yet...but in the process, which the Lord is leading and working in you....He does prepare you for what is coming next in your life....so look to see and recognize what he is teaching you today and how he is preparing you...not to be fully perfect to be able to handle life perfectly....but line upon line, precept upon precept....he is carrying you a little further all the time...Rejoice in this.

A friend of ours did his thesis on this many, many years ago. He is a minister and also ran a divorce recovery ministry in Australia that grew from a small group of less than 10 to over 120 in just a few months. I believe you have almost summed up his thesis in your first couple of sentences.

Good post Preachergirl

Well thank you Evan. And you know and so does the Minister you spoke of, that Grace is not at all an occassion to sin, but, it is something! And what it is is hope when there seems to be done, and Life even when we miserably fall or fail. It speaks of God's certain Unconditional Love for us and his Promise to Always be there, even if I make my bed in hell, and so even in the face of Divorce?

I have to admit that long before this long painful affair, when I was in ministry, I used to feel sorry for divorced people, as if they had given up their chance of ever reaching the high calling in their life. I still believed God loved them but yet that things just never could be fully whole or right again.

But God showed me, not man, and not until after 7 years of painful marriage separation, at the door of divorce, that I was still the same person to him that he loved before and truly he has not rewarded me for sin, as he says, but according to His Love for me (for us). I was Greatly Delivered by this...it was like Realizing that I was not dead and Life was not over!

The thing I feared the very most and had the uttermost pain about was that God would take the callings, anointing away and never let me preach again, and a Pastor I went to told me that this is exactly what God would do. I went immediatley home and fell before God crying and asking would I ever preach again. And I had not since the separation 7 years earlier. In exactly 2 weeks I was preaching at small church Revival and a teen girl was saved, and this was no doubt a witness, a sign to me...a deliverance, a hope, a great comfort, amen.

Originally Posted by preachergirl

Jesus did not come to put the heavy burden of the "LAW" upon you, so that if you slip in some way you are doomed! Blasphemy is not in definition anything to do with divorce...divorce is not the unpardonable sin. ......

Hi there!

I don't think we need to bring the whole "Law" (Torah) thing into this. The OP mentioned two things: Sex before marriage, and divorce. As regards the first, sex before (or outside of) marriage is most definitely as sin, law or no law. The Bible calls it Fornication.

As regards Divorce, that is a little more complcated, but I am convinced that this to is imposssible. I say "immpossible" rather than "sin" because there is no such thing as a divorce. If you go to court to get a "divorce", then the legal authorities may recognize it, but God does not. You remain married in the eyes of God. So what happens then? I submit to you that if a person who has gotten a so-called "divorce" goes off and gets re-married, then what is in fact happening in the eyes of God is that they are commiting adultery with the person they think is there new spouse because they are in fact still married to their first spouse.

Man cannot seperate what God has joined. As is said in Genesis 1 regarding Adam and Eve, the two became one. What happens when you split one in half? Do you get two ones? No, you get two halves.

Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

Hi there!

I don't think we need to bring the whole "Law" (Torah) thing into this. The OP mentioned two things: Sex before marriage, and divorce. As regards the first, sex before (or outside of) marriage is most definitely as sin, law or no law. The Bible calls it Fornication.

As regards Divorce, that is a little more complcated, but I am convinced that this to is imposssible. I say "immpossible" rather than "sin" because there is no such thing as a divorce. If you go to court to get a "divorce", then the legal authorities may recognize it, but God does not. You remain married in the eyes of God. So what happens then? I submit to you that if a person who has gotten a so-called "divorce" goes off and gets re-married, then what is in fact happening in the eyes of God is that they are commiting adultery with the person they think is there new spouse because they are in fact still married to their first spouse.

Man cannot seperate what God has joined. As is said in Genesis 1 regarding Adam and Eve, the two became one. What happens when you split one in half? Do you get two ones? No, you get two halves.

C.C., Why quench the Spirit? Where is the Encouragment that comes from the Holy Spirit if we only offer this poster rules & laws (the Letter) with no Love...even your own Dad (or some Dad's if not yours) would offer hope & encouragement, How much more the Father of Love?