[DanielSlack]

"You can judge a society by how they treat their weakest members." Mahatma Gandhi

Firstly, most Christians deny the existence of animal intelligence to feel or comprehend pain. In the Bible, there are examples of the animals being intelligent conscious entities. The original Torah, one of the Jewish Holy Books, refers to the snake as a snake. NOT AS SATAN, this was added later through "Christian Translators."

In Chapter 3 of Genesis:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

The first question that comes to mind is when Eve was being deceived by the serpent, wouldn't a talking snake be a bit suspicious? She could have told Adam or God "Hey I found a talking snake what do think, I thought animals couldn't talk". I know if a serpent started talking to me I think breaking the rules would be the last thought in my mind.

In this train of thought, it is logical to assume that most creatures that Adam and Eve were with could talk, because of Eve's lack of surprise. This also leads to the conclusion that animals have a high amount of intelligence, and the same capacity to sin as well. Immediately this makes me question rather the Tower of Babel incident was when man stopped communicating with animals, not from man talking to other men.

In The Book Of Numbers Chapter 22:

27 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat her with his staff. 28 Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"

29 Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now."

30 The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?" "No," he said.

31 Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell face down

In this example we have another conversation between an animal and a human. I have had it often explained that it was GOD, an angel, or some demon that spoke through the animal. The problem with that is unless GOD, Angels, or Demons have been carrying Balaam and his luggage all over the land, it is definitely the voice of the donkey.

Jesus' message is one of love and compassion, yet there is nothing loving or compassionate about factory farms and slaughterhouses, where billions of animals live miserable lives and die violent, bloody deaths. Jesus mandates kindness, mercy, compassion, and love for all God's creation. He would be appalled by the degree of suffering we inflict on animals to indulge our acquired taste for their flesh.

Christians have a choice. When we sit down to eat, we can add to the level of violence, misery, and death in the world, or we can respect His creation with a vegetarian diet.

The Garden of Eden, God's perfect world, was vegetarian (Gen. 1:29-30). Immediately, God calls this ideal and non-exploitative relationship "good" (Gen. 1:31). There follow many years of fallen humanity, when people held slaves, waged war, ate animals and committed various other violent acts. But the prophets tell us that the peaceable kingdom will be nonviolent and vegetarian; even the lion will lie down with the lamb (e.g., Isaiah 11). Jesus is the Prince of Peace, who ushers in this new age of nonviolence. When Christians pray, "Your will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven," the one prayer given to us by Jesus, this obligates us to change our lives, to make choices that are as merciful and loving as possible. There will be no factory farms and slaughterhouses in heaven.

God created every animal with the capacity for pain and suffering. But on today's factory farms, animals are dehorned, debeaked, and castrated without anesthesia. To maximize profits, they are crowded together in the least space possible, and are genetically bred, so that most suffer lameness, crippling leg deformities, or bone breaks, because their legs can't keep up with their scientifically enhanced bodies. Finally, they are trucked without food or water, through all weather extremes, to a frightening and hellish death.

A vegetarian diet is good for your health and spares animals unimaginable suffering and violence. Remember: As we do to the least, so we do to Him.

Is it mans right to determine the passage of life and not God's. Does our food deserve to live in the same condition that the Jews did in Aschweitz?

Unfortunately, we use religious dogma to justify "Wars" in the name of GOD, to justify violence "IN THE NAME OF GOD", and we even torture "IN The Name Of GOD". The main excuse for these acts is either "It Says We Can In the Bible", or "Jesus Died For My Sins".

God has given us an infinitely powerful ability for compassion and mercy. The walk of Jesus exhibited how we should bestow these concepts, amongst our fellow humans."Jesus forgave the Murderer, Jesus Forgave the Thief, Jesus forgave the liar, and Jesus made us free.", but we have a responsibility to treat all life as sacred. All life is a blessing from GOD.

I eat meat. BUT, I do not believe in the mistreatment and torturing of GOD's creatures before it gets to my table. These creatures who give their lives deserve a little comfort and happiness before ending up in my oven. I eat organic open range products, to try to ensure that my food is treated like a living creature and not like an item for the shelf.

"29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows." Matt. 10

[Brad]

If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?

[Soulheart3]

Originally Posted by Brad

If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?

LOL! Good one Brad. I just feel sorry for those poor vegatables, no one seems to care about them, at least some care about animals.

Well said except animals are not the same as Jews nor is how we treat animals of more concern than how we treat humans. Of course you might have been trying to convey what you thought Gandhi* was referring to, that in your opinion as the great guru said, the reason we don't follow Jesus teachings about love finds it's roots in our treatment of animals.
I would say it differently: The reason we do to animals what we do, turning their processing in to obscene filth and horror is that we have become insensitive to even greater horror in our finding justification for violating every teaching of Jesus in the name of being comfortable -- a powerful country that devolves upon all of us, the luxury of "all you can eat" eateries, flushing toilets with pristine pure water, buying trees of toilet paper at Costco, etc, etc. Here in America, we are Kings and"It's good to be king."

I haven't read the quote but I will look it up because it is what Jesus said from a different angle. However, I think Gandhi was referring to humans.

[DanielSlack]

Yes, he was talking of humans.. but he was talking on the basis of a society. This leads to a larger question... Are or Should Animals be considered part of our Society?

[khigg]

Humanity is God's greatest creation. Man was made to have fellowship with God. God made the animals for man's pleasure, that is to eat and make what he needs from them. God said that man had dominion over the animal and plant world.

Who killed the first animal? God did! He did so to cloth Adam and Eve, because they were naked.

[DanielSlack]

Hello,

You have inadvertently brushed up on an issue that I am writing an article about. In the bible, Who, When, How, and Why say that we are the greatest thing in all of God's creation?
I understand that we can look at the issue form two perspectives.

Perspective one is that man is so important and great to G-D that he sent his only begotten son, so that anyone who truly repents and lives by his example, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Perspective two is that of all in creation, man was the only one that did not respect the blessing and achievements of G-D. Everything else in the universe attests to his glory, from rocks to trees, from fish to birds, from lions to lambs. Mankind, on the other hand, tends to continously need reminding of G-D's plan in the universe. Man keeps needing prophets to advise us of G-D's will, to tell us to stop messing up, destroying ourselves, our neighbors, and our planet.

Instead of thinking on the terms that man is so wonderful that he needed "G-D's Son" to save them, maybe it is that Man is SOOO retarded, that he keeps rejecting G-D's will, G-D's law, and G-D's blessing.

The Bible is a Humanocentric scripture, yet it is not the beast of the fields that needed redemption. Maybe that is something else that Balaam's donkey can attest to as well.

Originally Posted by DanielSlack

Hello,

You have inadvertently brushed up on an issue that I am writing an article about. In the bible, Who, When, How, and Why say that we are the greatest thing in all of God's creation?
I understand that we can look at the issue form two perspectives.

Perspective one is that man is so important and great to G-D that he sent his only begotten son, so that anyone who truly repents and lives by his example, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Perspective two is that of all in creation, man was the only one that did not respect the blessing and achievements of G-D. Everything else in the universe attests to his glory, from rocks to trees, from fish to birds, from lions to lambs. Mankind, on the other hand, tends to continously need reminding of G-D's plan in the universe. Man keeps needing prophets to advise us of G-D's will, to tell us to stop messing up, destroying ourselves, our neighbors, and our planet.

Instead of thinking on the terms that man is so wonderful that he needed "G-D's Son" to save them, maybe it is that Man is SOOO retarded, that he keeps rejecting G-D's will, G-D's law, and G-D's blessing.

The Bible is a Humanocentric scripture, yet it is not the beast of the fields that needed redemption. Maybe that is something else that Balaam's donkey can attest to as well.

I LOVE IT!!!!! (What's bolded, that is)

[truth2010]

Originally Posted by DanielSlack

"You can judge a society by how they treat their weakest members." Mahatma Gandhi

Firstly, most Christians deny the existence of animal intelligence to feel or comprehend pain. In the Bible, there are examples of the animals being intelligent conscious entities. The original Torah, one of the Jewish Holy Books, refers to the snake as a snake. NOT AS SATAN, this was added later through "Christian Translators."

In Chapter 3 of Genesis:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

The first question that comes to mind is when Eve was being deceived by the serpent, wouldn't a talking snake be a bit suspicious? She could have told Adam or God "Hey I found a talking snake what do think, I thought animals couldn't talk". I know if a serpent started talking to me I think breaking the rules would be the last thought in my mind.

In this train of thought, it is logical to assume that most creatures that Adam and Eve were with could talk, because of Eve's lack of surprise. This also leads to the conclusion that animals have a high amount of intelligence, and the same capacity to sin as well. Immediately this makes me question rather the Tower of Babel incident was when man stopped communicating with animals, not from man talking to other men.

In The Book Of Numbers Chapter 22:

27 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat her with his staff. 28 Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"

29 Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now."

30 The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?" "No," he said.

31 Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell face down

In this example we have another conversation between an animal and a human. I have had it often explained that it was GOD, an angel, or some demon that spoke through the animal. The problem with that is unless GOD, Angels, or Demons have been carrying Balaam and his luggage all over the land, it is definitely the voice of the donkey.

Jesus' message is one of love and compassion, yet there is nothing loving or compassionate about factory farms and slaughterhouses, where billions of animals live miserable lives and die violent, bloody deaths. Jesus mandates kindness, mercy, compassion, and love for all God's creation. He would be appalled by the degree of suffering we inflict on animals to indulge our acquired taste for their flesh.

Christians have a choice. When we sit down to eat, we can add to the level of violence, misery, and death in the world, or we can respect His creation with a vegetarian diet.

The Garden of Eden, God's perfect world, was vegetarian (Gen. 1:29-30). Immediately, God calls this ideal and non-exploitative relationship "good" (Gen. 1:31). There follow many years of fallen humanity, when people held slaves, waged war, ate animals and committed various other violent acts. But the prophets tell us that the peaceable kingdom will be nonviolent and vegetarian; even the lion will lie down with the lamb (e.g., Isaiah 11). Jesus is the Prince of Peace, who ushers in this new age of nonviolence. When Christians pray, "Your will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven," the one prayer given to us by Jesus, this obligates us to change our lives, to make choices that are as merciful and loving as possible. There will be no factory farms and slaughterhouses in heaven.

God created every animal with the capacity for pain and suffering. But on today's factory farms, animals are dehorned, debeaked, and castrated without anesthesia. To maximize profits, they are crowded together in the least space possible, and are genetically bred, so that most suffer lameness, crippling leg deformities, or bone breaks, because their legs can't keep up with their scientifically enhanced bodies. Finally, they are trucked without food or water, through all weather extremes, to a frightening and hellish death.

A vegetarian diet is good for your health and spares animals unimaginable suffering and violence. Remember: As we do to the least, so we do to Him.

Is it mans right to determine the passage of life and not God's. Does our food deserve to live in the same condition that the Jews did in Aschweitz?

Unfortunately, we use religious dogma to justify "Wars" in the name of GOD, to justify violence "IN THE NAME OF GOD", and we even torture "IN The Name Of GOD". The main excuse for these acts is either "It Says We Can In the Bible", or "Jesus Died For My Sins".

God has given us an infinitely powerful ability for compassion and mercy. The walk of Jesus exhibited how we should bestow these concepts, amongst our fellow humans."Jesus forgave the Murderer, Jesus Forgave the Thief, Jesus forgave the liar, and Jesus made us free.", but we have a responsibility to treat all life as sacred. All life is a blessing from GOD.

I eat meat. BUT, I do not believe in the mistreatment and torturing of GOD's creatures before it gets to my table. These creatures who give their lives deserve a little comfort and happiness before ending up in my oven. I eat organic open range products, to try to ensure that my food is treated like a living creature and not like an item for the shelf.

"29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows." Matt. 10

I havent read your whole post because I am being lazy right now, but I agree that animals SHOULD NOT be tormented or hurt or abused prior to being eaten. I believe somewhere in the Bible, God speaks against animals being abused. If I find it, i will post it.

[ByFaithIC]

Your thread question was "is eating meat godly?" According to Genesis 9:3 God okayed the eating of meat, but notice what God said first in verse 2....

Genesis 9:2-3 (NKJV)
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand.
3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.

Man is the dread of animal's.

Now, as far as the context of your thread, Men are so often cruel to other human beings so why would it be any less expected of how they treat animals?

I myself have often wondered how God view's the fact that so many men hunt for sport. I can understand if hunting for 'a' deer if a family really needs the meat, but I could never understand how groups of men get together every fall to go hang out in the woods to see who can kill the buck with the biggest horn.