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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Bible Chat  > Who are the imposter Jews?

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  #1  
Old 02-14-2010, 09:18 PM
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Default Who are the imposter Jews?

Rev. 2:9, 3:9 makes mention of imposter Jews.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
.
.
.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Who are they?
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
Rev. 2:9, 3:9 makes mention of imposter Jews.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
.
.
.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Who are they?
Again Jesus is speaking to the heart of the matter of who really believes.
The true Jew is one whose heart is after Elohim. One who knows he's mighty to save. One who has a heart after God like David. One who trust the God who is the made a promise to Abraham and has and is keeping it.
The other who is not a true Jew is also spoken of here....


2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

And again.....


Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Those are my thoughts.
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1Jn 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

doinghiswill,

I really do not follow your line of thinking here. The Jews rejected Christ. Hence, by such rejection, there is no Jew [by religion] that is a 'true' believer today.

Now, I am not saying that all Jews [by religion] are doomed to hell [unsaved side of the gulf] during the millennium. Some Jews may convert to Christianity from now until Christ's return. Once a Jew converts, said person is no longer a Jew, by religion.

Accordingly, I don't think that a religious context can be attributed to Rev. 2:9, 3:9. It has to be a reference to Jews, by lineage.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
Rev. 2:9, 3:9 makes mention of imposter Jews.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
.
.
.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Who are they?
Judasim was a recognized religion of Rome. In other words, it was legal for Jews to practice their religion. Now Rome "ruled" over Judea (and most of the "civilized" world) at the time of these writings, whereas Christianity was not a recognized religion. Chritians were accused of "Judizing" the people. Roman rulers were upset with the Christians because their towns were loosing a lot of money. The towns people were converitng and no longer taking part in the pagan rituals and festivals put on and enjoyed by the citizens of the empire. Because Christianity was not a "leagle" religion recognized by the state, they started killing the Christians with permission and favor from Rome. I guess certain Christians were lieing so they could observe the commandments of God in peace.
Now you tell me what is worse, the Christians of that day, that said they were Jews so they worship in peace, or the Chritians of today that worship pagan festivals in the name of our Lord, so they worship in peace?
and now that you know, what are you going to do? And can you hear the devil saying, "Pick up your shovel and follow me, we'll dig a hole six feet deep".
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

36Grit,

I really do not follow your line of thinking. What you are saying is that these early Christians 'blaspheme' God by protecting themselves from Roman pagan rituals, which the Jews, themselves, would not be participating in either.

And, there is the issue of the crucifixion to consider. The Jews, by religion, rejected Christ. Christ should be against the Jewish religion for their failure to recognize the Messiah. Paul spoke out against the law many times.

In addition, early Christians were trying to divorce themselves from Judaizing people [put them under the Law]. They were accused of not obeying the law -- not enforcing it.

Last, these very important scriptures are in the Book of Revelation, which is the 'unveiling'. I don't see how your analysis fits in with any kind of 'unveiling' that Christ wants us to know.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

I think the Messianic Jews are certainly an interesting bunch... I wonder how they fit into the overall picture.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

This is a good thread, although the original poster doesn't get the points made by others, but that is fine. Every man must be persuaded in his own mind, for starters, therefore if one can not see, another person point doesn't mean it is right our wrong, but justification is truly by faith, and if we adhere to the faith of Christ we will see clearly upon all things.

Your question was, "Who is the imposter Jews"? Well to know that answer, we must also first know who the real Jews are, and who the imposter Jews are, who they imitate, and who they are not.

Once these questions are answered, one will have full understanding, if they are answered by the spirit of God, and not a fleshly perspective.

How does the bible say the real Jews are?

Romans 2

1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

We have to be careful as we make judgment according to our fleshly understanding. It is not in a title, that makes one a servant of God, Child of God, Sons of God, or a Jew. If you walk after the flesh you are truly none of these things mentioned.

If you are called a Jew, Christian, or anything else under the sun, pertaining to only who you convey (speak/open show) yourself to be, then all these practices are vain, and should be counted as dung. If you walk as a man with only fleshly understanding serving the flesh, the same judgment you judge one with is the same judgment you get back, because the same things one judge another in, the one doing the judging is not worthy to judge, because they commit sin also. So much for mans court system.

Gods judgment is the only pure judgment that we should be judged with. If you are not transformed by the renewing of your mind, being reconciled now, called a son of God now through the spirit, being heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ, then Gods judgment has not yet judged you righteous. If one is not yet counted or judged by God as righteous, then one should not judge others, but let judgment condemn themselves to loss there own wickedness, to become a son of God, patterned after the first begotten.

4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Everyone will be judged according to his deeds, either if it is of God, or some other nature.

7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

This is the real Jew, which are also those that are lead by the spirit.

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

If one follows after this, no matter what you call ones self, or what one judges someone else to be, this same person will also be judged according to there deeds.

10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11For there is no respect of persons with God.

God has no respect of persons, meaning he is not partial to any particular group according to the flesh, or to what one will call there self. Honor and peace is judge upon those that do good. Doing good, is submitting to God in all points. If you submit to God in all points, then titles don 't matter, but you give power to the title either in obedience to God, or disobedience to him. If you are disobedient to God, whom are you obedient to?

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

This simply means that no matter where you are in your understanding, right is right and wrong is wrong, and one shall be judge accordingly. If you sin continually, not dieing to the nature of the flesh while you live, you are without the law of God, which is the law of the spirit, one shall be judge accordingly. If you know the law of the spirit, which is submitting to God, by faith, believing the word of God to be true, then to not follow is sin within the law, and one will be judge by the law.

13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The doer is justified, because he has faith in God, through Christ Jesus that lives within him. This is the real Jew, christian, and sons of God, anything else is an imposter as the post asked the question.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

The Gentiles at one point didn't have the knowledge of the law, and what was commanded by God, but once they understood who God was, even without complete instruction, or details of what they should and shouldn't do, committed to doing what was given to them by faith. In doing so, they followed the law of the spirit, which is faith and commitment to God. This kind of person, when truth is revealed, they are able to receive it, and make the changes need to cut off the fleshly nature.

When you are a person trying to save face, and not suffer loss, then you don't abide by the spirit of God, but by your own nature, doing what the fleshly nature (you) want to do. This kind of person will continue in all those things instituted by man, be it religion, ritual, customs (man made holiday), and anything such like because they are not willing to suffer loss for Christ, counting all those things as dung.

A person that is willing to suffer loss of all things, through the knowledge, wisdom, and understanding from God, they abide by the law of the spirit, which is obedience to God in all points.

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

20An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

22Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?




Be careful and not let your own teachings, and judgment come upon your own head do to the fact that you may not be righteous yourself.

24For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

If one himself is living wickedly, but preach righteousness, your ways will not be hid, and it will be revealed to all. Those that see this will despise your teachings, even in what you preach about God, they will blaspheme because of your wicked ways.

25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

What is the law that we shall keep that will make us free from the law? Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

If you obey the law of the spirit your circumcision is profitable. But if you don't keep the law of the spirit, which is obedience, then your circumcision is not counted, it is as filthy rages, to the Jew first, then to everyone else, because judgment is at the Church first. If you didn't keep the law of the spirit, then there is another law that you will received, being law less.

1 Timothy 1:8-10

8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


If you fit this kind of person, you are an imposter, no matter what you call yourself, to the Jew first, and to everyone else also. Most don't understand that there are two laws mention in the bible, and that is the law of the spirit (obedience to Gods word) and the law of sin and death (reserved for the disobedient), which was also given by Moses to the children of Israel letting them no that if the don't keep the commandments (law of the spirit), they will be punished by the law (law of sin and death).

The way to escape the law or to be not under the law, is not do the things that will get you placed under the law. If you are now renewed to be obedient to the law of the spirit, then your are not under the law of sin and death, therefore making all things lawful for you, because you don't serve the fleshly nature any longer in sin.

Back to Romans 2

26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

What is the righteousness of the law? It is the law of the spirit, which is obedience by faith. If you do that, then no matter if your flesh is uncircumcised, your heart is circumcised, and the uncircumcision of your flesh will be counted as circumcision, because you are now obedient to the law of the spirit.

27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

We are all born in the flesh being uncircumcised by nature, both male and female. Keep in mind the female is not instructed to cut the foreskin of her flesh, being the token of the circumcision, so how would a women fulfill that token if that was so important? No matter, and moving forward, if you keep the law of the spirit being obedient, you have fulfilled the law of the spirit each day that you continue to submit to God. When you submit to God, bringing the body subject to the law of the spirit, your flesh is circumcised, because you have cut the sinful nature (foreskin) away from your heart, therefore the physical body is also circumcised. Isn't this also physical not to sin, for when you bring the deeds of your body subject to God, that is also spiritual and physical, that is real circumsision. That is the real circumcision, but to many people count the token of the circumcision (cutting of the foreskin) as the circumcision, but there hearts remain uncircumcised, making the cutting of the foreskin not counted by God. For if you cut the flesh, and your heart is not right, you are not circumcised.

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Your outward show of whom you are in any custom does not make you a Jew. The real Jew is one that is a Jew inwardly, being brought subject to the law of the spirit everyday, being made free from the law of sin and death. These are the real Jews, and any other, by any other way is an imposter.

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Last edited by Israel : 02-16-2010 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

These are believers who have change the image of Christ to fulfill their own earthly glory as those that are False Apostles/Prophets of Christ.
Jesus also went further in Matthew7/21-23(read)to show us what they are continually doing as Elymas the sorcerer was doing in his day and no doubt those that follow in their forbidden path as well today!
You see many today who desire to be more like God,than made by Christ!!!
This was Satan desire in heaven to be more like God and in desiring to be like this he grew in virtue and knowledge,which caused him to be seen/respected like God!
There are many believers who have the gift of speaking in tongues,but have another life in them that is yet to be delievered from sinful living,with Gods presence in them.
The appalling thing about these people is they sit in the temple of God showing themselves to be godly with living in sin
Now more than ever are we seeeing the fulfillment of Christ prophecies to our generation as never before and because it is being seen many are asking questions as to what does this mean?
It means we are in Perilous(dangerous)times,men will be lovers of themselves with Christs glory and revelation about them/those that they see and accept as saved according to their doctrines.
This is only the dawning of what we have seen from men as Jim Jones and those that minister the Gospel by Occultic Powers,these are Jewish imposters that we must Pray/fast to see and cast out by the power of God/Christ Holy Ghost!!!
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I think the Messianic Jews are certainly an interesting bunch... I wonder how they fit into the overall picture.
My understanding of Messianic Jews is that they are primarily Christians that adhere to portions of the Law. They do not claim to be Jews at all, so I do not believe one can appropriately tag them as imposters.

In addition, how is it blasphemy to God for Jews to observe the Law??
Eze 37:15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
Since both sticks will be joined some day, it can't be blasphemy to God to observe the Law. God gave us the Law, through Moses. The Law is a good thing.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Who are the imposter Jews?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erinblanco View Post
These are believers who have change the image of Christ to fulfill their own earthly glory as those that are False Apostles/Prophets of Christ.
Jesus also went further in Matthew7/21-23(read)to show us what they are continually doing as Elymas the sorcerer was doing in his day and no doubt those that follow in their forbidden path as well today!
You see many today who desire to be more like God,than made by Christ!!!
This was Satan desire in heaven to be more like God and in desiring to be like this he grew in virtue and knowledge,which caused him to be seen/respected like God!
There are many believers who have the gift of speaking in tongues,but have another life in them that is yet to be delievered from sinful living,with Gods presence in them.
The appalling thing about these people is they sit in the temple of God showing themselves to be godly with living in sin
Now more than ever are we seeeing the fulfillment of Christ prophecies to our generation as never before and because it is being seen many are asking questions as to what does this mean?
It means we are in Perilous(dangerous)times,men will be lovers of themselves with Christs glory and revelation about them/those that they see and accept as saved according to their doctrines.
This is only the dawning of what we have seen from men as Jim Jones and those that minister the Gospel by Occultic Powers,these are Jewish imposters that we must Pray/fast to see and cast out by the power of God/Christ Holy Ghost!!!
I would agree with you in what you have conveyed to understand. Those that desire to be like God, can't do it, without being patterned after Christ, for he is our example. As he is so are we in this world, if we are truly lead by the spirit. If we are lead by the spirit, we are the Sons of God, being as Christ is.

Satan is the imposter, along with all his children, no matter what they call themselves in religion, or in the world. He that is righteous let him be righteous still, he that is filthy let him be filthy still.

Now if God is present in you, you can not continue in sin, for his seed remain in those that are his, dieing each day to the fleshly nature. He that endure until the end the same shall be saved. So we ought to bare our cross each day, which is bringing the body subject to the spirit, despite the fleshly desire that is there.

If you find some to clam the gifts of the spirit, or they speak in unknown tongues, but continue to walk after the flesh, then that spirit, and the tongues that they speak in are not of God. Let us not be confused, he that do righteous is righteous.

The temple that the imposter sites in is the one made with hands, no matter what they call themselves, when they esteem fleshly things to be high, when they are nothing. That is also the imposter.

Those that walk after the flesh are in a dangerous and a time of peril as you have said. Those that walk after the spirit being lead by the spirit, the Kingdom of God is within now, as they continue in righteousness. These are those that the mystery from the beginning is complete in, which is Christ in us. If we have the son (Christ), we have the father, which also makes us sons being after the first begotten. Many will confess Christ, saying Lord Lord this, and Lord Lord that, but they will be told to depart by the son, because they didn't do the will of the father.
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