Witness

The Word tells us that there must be at least two witnesses.

In recent threads I have been engaged in. I have noticed that most people use only one witness, and not two.

God said - "I AM THAT I AM"

Yet, God told Moses to tell the people that "I am" said. What this means, is that Moses was only one witness, not two. God himself had to be the other witness. God did this by bringing to pass that which Moses spoke about. For instance, God said he would bring manna from heaven. Moses was only one witness of this, as God only told Moses. The second witness was when God did indeed bring manna from heaven.

Way too many times posters discuss the Word of God, and they claim that their witness is true. Now this does not in any way mean that if another poster comes along and agree's with them, that this becomes the second witness. It still can be a false witness that has come forth to agree with the other. So you still have two false witnesses. And you still end up with a false witness.

In discussing with one poster, this poster said that because doubting Thomas said - "My Lord and My God", that Thomas was the witness that Jesus was God. However, what is lacking here ? If you have not guessed as of yet, the answer is , where is the second witness ?

Another poster said, that when unbelievers were talking with Jesus, that they were going to stone Jesus because he maketh himself God. Because Jesus spoke these words - 'Before Abraham was , I am". This poster sided with these unbelievers in the sense, that this poster said that they knew what they were talking about when Jesus said this comment, that before Abraham was , I am. So who was the witness of this paticular poster ? The unbelievers , correct ? He went on to claim, that the reason they wanted to stone him was because he said he was God. And these unbelievers knew what they were talking about. Does this seem a little ludicrous to you ? Well let me tell you, after I read it, it did to me as well.

Where was the second witness ? There was none , if one is honest about it. Can we not read that Jesus went on to say that it was because he said- "I am the Son of God" ?

Another poster brought a certain translation to a conversation, using the NIV as a witness of what this poster believed. One verse, from one translation. John 1:18. Well here again, where is the second witness ? In all honesty, there was none. One reason you can not use translation, is the fact that no two are alike !

The same holds true with greek texts and concordances and Hebrew texts. No two are alike, so they can not be a second witness.

So what is a second witness ? The truth is, if God says it, it will then come to pass and be true. If a translation says it, it might or might not be true. Only God will defend His own Word. No man can defend the word on his or her own ! No man can say that they have proven something too you ! That is only one witness. There has to be a second witness in order that it is true.

If someone tells me that Peter is the greatest Apostle, I will ask for proof. Knowing full well, that no one can prove it , not too me, nor to anyone else.

It has to be reasoned out, not proven. And there must be two witnesses.

The written Word can be one witness. But there still needs to be a second witness. Another person who agree's with you ? No ! The only second witness that one can trust is in the Spirit of truth that resides in you. This Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, is the "only" other witness to the written Word.

Many people here use someone elses writtings and statemens. And they all use scripture in some way. But , again this is just their own witness of themselves. If what someone says is true, the the second witness of what someone says in the Spirit of truth in you, which is Christ in you.

This is why I "never" use someone elses work. OR comments, or statements.

And no one here should either ! They are someone elses work and not yours. No matter how much you agree with them ! Someone elses works are not a witness of truth. And you agreeing with them does not make it a second witness either !

This is why the Word states - Let God be true and every man a liar !

I would rather people look at my comments as comments coming from a liar. Then I would you to believe anything and everything that comes out of my mouth/typed !

You must look for a second witness. And if you do not have the Spirit of Christ in you, you will not look for the true second witness ! But if you do have the Spirit of Christ in you, then by all means look towards him that is of truth. Not towards someone elses writtings or comments ! And don't have others wasting their time reading something someone else has wrote !

Our conversations here, are with one another, not with the writter of some said person, taken from some said site !

I want to know if your witness is true, not their's !

I want to talk with you, not them, who are not with us to discuss their own writtings !

If you do use your bible or concordance, which I do likewise. Never claim that it is the truth in and of itslef ! Because it is not ! There needs to be a second witness .

Genesis 31:50 - "Let God be a witness between me and thee"

Love IN Christ - MM

[Amadeus]

Yes, and so much for statements that because the majority says or does it, it must be correct!

Some time ago an old preacher I knew said that all ministers were liars including himself. That minister is gone to dust now, but his statement remains. Whether it is intentional or not, when any man says or does something, which he believes to be correct in God's eyes, but it is not, that man is a liar.

Give God all of the glory always!

[quote=Amadeus;72901][color="Blue"][size="4"][font="Comic Sans MS"]Yes, and so much for statements that because the majority says or does it, it must be correct!

Some time ago an old preacher I knew said that all ministers were liars including himself. That minister is gone to dust now, but his statement remains. Whether it is intentional or not, when any man says or does something, which he believes to be correct in God's eyes, but it is not, that man is a liar.

True John

And this is why the Word tells us to work out "our own" salvation with trembling and fear. That responsibility is ours and ours alone. Not some preachers or teachers.

As much as a brother or sister in Christ can and should help others who need help. Still the responsibility falls on the individual for their own salvation and their walk.

Bless - IN Christ - MM

You know what? As God is my witness, may He strike me dead this very day if Jesus is not in fact God. God, who hears my every word, sees my every move, has witnessed my writing of this. And any who read this are also witnesses of what I've written.

Jesus is God as sure as I breathe. You were provided scripture after scripture and you ignored them. If Jesus walked up to you, looked you in the eye, and said, I AM, would you still doubt Him and demand He have a witness?

God Himself said the virgin would bear a son and call Him Immanuel. Immanuel--God with Us! God said it. It came to pass. There is your second witness!

What part of "God with us" do you not understand?

Do not diminish the glory of my LORD! Do not drive the nails into His hands!

Originally Posted by Redeemed

You know what? As God is my witness, may He strike me dead this very day if Jesus is not in fact God. God, who hears my every word, sees my every move, has witnessed my writing of this. And any who read this are also witnesses of what I've written.

Jesus is God as sure as I breathe. You were provided scripture after scripture and you ignored them. If Jesus walked up to you, looked you in the eye, and said, I AM, would you still doubt Him and demand He have a witness?

God Himself said the virgin would bear a son and call Him Immanuel. Immanuel--God with Us! God said it. It came to pass. There is your second witness!

What part of "God with us" do you not understand?

Do not diminish the glory of my LORD! Do not drive the nails into His hands!

He did that very thing you speak of. Jesus did go right up to Peter and asked him, who do you say that I am ? Peter replied, "thou art the Christ, the son of the living God". Jesus replied back - "for flesh and bone has not revealed this unto you, but my Father in heaven"

Nancy, I would have to say, that I would reply the exact same words that Peter did. So yes, I would reply according to the revealing of the Father. Just as Peter did. And Jesus would be my second witness, just like Jesus was Peter's second witness.

Love IN Christ - MM

Originally Posted by Redeemed

You know what? As God is my witness, may He strike me dead this very day if Jesus is not in fact God. God, who hears my every word, sees my every move, has witnessed my writing of this. And any who read this are also witnesses of what I've written.

Jesus is God as sure as I breathe. You were provided scripture after scripture and you ignored them. If Jesus walked up to you, looked you in the eye, and said, I AM, would you still doubt Him and demand He have a witness?

God Himself said the virgin would bear a son and call Him Immanuel. Immanuel--God with Us! God said it. It came to pass. There is your second witness!

What part of "God with us" do you not understand?

Do not diminish the glory of my LORD! Do not drive the nails into His hands!

What does "Immanuel" actually mean ? In Isaiah 7:14 it does tell us.

When it states that "interpreted" means "God with us". Is the interpretation correct ? Should we trust it as it is written here ?

I say no ! Many will say yes.

This name was given to the son of Ahaz. This can be read in Isaiah 7:10 thru verse 17.

The Word of God is a mirror image of itself. Here in Isaiah this son named Immanuel is literal, while Jesus name was figurative .

God was with this son Immanuel , the son of Ahaz. And God was with Jesus the Christ.

Interpreted properly, the meaning is - God was with Jesus Christ, as he was with the son of Ahaz.

The interpretation in Matthew is incorrect ! Not God with us. But - God with him !

II Corintians 5:19 - "To wit, that God was in (with) Christ , reconciling the world unto himself"

Love IN Christ - MM

What was the name given to Joseph by an angel in a dream ? "JESUS" < Correct ?

Not - Emmanuel - correct ?

We need to study people and stop being so emotional about our beliefs ! Being passonate is one thing. But allowing our emotions to take over is not the way to live your life !

Be quiet in him, and he shall reveal the truth that is in you .

Love IN Christ - MM

Originally Posted by Mysteryman

Interpreted properly, the meaning is - God was with Jesus Christ, as he was with the son of Ahaz.

The interpretation in Matthew is incorrect ! Not God with us. But - God with him !


Love IN Christ - MM

Everywhere I look "Immanuel" is interpreted God with us.

Strongs:
H6005
with us (is) God

Now, shall I believe the witness of countless others, or you alone?

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Everywhere I look "Immanuel" is interpreted God with us.

Strongs:
H6005
with us (is) God

Now, shall I believe the witness of countless others, or you alone?

Hi Nancy

They are not witnesses. They are translators.

So now you put your trust in translators , rather than in God ?

So why didn't God tell Joseph to name him Immanuel ? Because we all know God told Joseph to name him Jesus , not Immanuel !

Show me the second witness within the Word where God called the son born of a virgin - Immanuel.

God was not with us, he was with him - Christ.

Now look at the Word of God, and show us two things. How many times is the son of this virgin named Immanuel and how many times is he called Jesus.

Remember , you need two witnesses, minimum. And not from "outside" the Word of God, but from within it.

Might I also add, what are translators doing interpreting the Word ?

IN Christ - MM

MM~

With all due respect, you are losing me. Let me get this straight: I can't trust Bible interpreters or interpretations. I can't trust translators. (according to you)

So what shall I do? Throw the Bible in the garbage?

How am I to study it, if I can't even trust translators or interpreters?

Are you asking me to just listen to you and you alone?

In Christ~
Nancy