[quote=Mysteryman;72948]

So why didn't God tell Joseph to name him Immanuel ? Because we all know God told Joseph to name him Jesus , not Immanuel !

"Immanuel" was Christ's title: God with us.
"Jesus" basically means salvation.

Are you saying that Isaiah 7:14 was not a prophecy of Christ's birth? Who else was born of a virgin?

* * * * * *

What is all this talk of "witnesses"?

* * * * * *

Might I also add, what are translators doing interpreting the Word ?

The different Bible translations all used "Immanuel" and the commentaries all agreed that "Immanuel" means "God with us."

The Lexicon said: with us (is ) God

~Nancy

Very simple Nancy; I agree.

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Everywhere I look "Immanuel" is interpreted God with us.

Strongs:
H6005
with us (is) God

Now, shall I believe the witness of countless others, or you alone?

Nancy

How many times do I have to tell you and others here. Do not believe anything I say ! That means nothing ! zip - nada - zero !

Are we on the same page now ?

No Nancy, you go and figure it out for yourself ! All I am doing is sharing with you, I am not trying to convince anyone !

I want you to consider me a liar ! Now prove me wrong !

Not with what translators say or put into their translations. But by your own reasoning. Don't let them tell you what they think it means ! Use your own reasoning. Reason it out !

Immanuel is a name , not a title ! Don't listen to me, go and figure it out !

If you say it is a title, then I will ask you , who told you this ? That is because you didn't reason it out. You allowed yourself to let someone tell you what it is suppose to mean. You failed, because you didn't reason it out !

Immanuel is a 'name', not a title. And it does not mean "God with us" ! But don't believe me, because I am a liar. Believe God, Nancy ! What does the Word say ? Look at Isaiah and you will find out on your own that God used this word Immanuel as a name, not a title. Check it out ! Stop being lazy !

You don't like my calling you lazy ? > tough . Does it seem like I am a mean person ? In no way is that true. Most people are lazy, they will not make time to check it out for themselves.

Geesh, even the translation didn't get that wrong. It even says it is a name ! Our translations can be trash, such as the NIV. Even the KJV has many things added or changed, or even omitted . We can not trust our translations ! Who ever gave you that idea, that we can trust our translations ? God want us to trust him, not our translations !

Do you Love God, or do you love your translation ? Do you trust God, or do you trust your translation ?

As I pointed out, and do not take my word for it. In Isaiah God told Ahaz to name his son to be, from a virgin , to name him Immanuel. Just read the verses, and you will see that it is not a title. And it is clear, that God was "with him". God didn't make the son of Ahaz - God or a god. That is ludicrous.

Why are you fighting me on this ? Don't fight with me or against me. Go back to the Word and figure it out on your own !

Is it a name or a title ?

Now, my search came up with it being a name. But they didn't name him Immanuel, they named him Jesus. Not Immanuel ! How many people believed that God was with Jesus while he (Jesus) walked the earth ? Few , right ? Very few !

You ask, what is all of this talk about a witness ? The Word of God is of no private interpretation. The Word interprets itself ! That is because God always "establishes" His Word. To establish , means - twice ! If something is not in our bibles twice, throw it out ! It is not of God ! It is of man.

The word "Immanuel" should be there in the book of Matthew. No doubt in my mind. It belongs there. God put it there. It has a purpose for being there. But one thing is for sure. During the time of Jesus birth, no man spoke these words about Immanuel. Matthew put them in later when he pened the writting of the book of Matthew. Notice that the books of Mark, Luke and John do not mention Immanuel. But it did belong there. This was indeed the prophecy carried forward from the book of Isaiah. But the words were never spoken, only written by Matthew. These words were uttered by Matthew, but not spoken to someone else. These words are a prophecy from Matthew.

I can not believe anyone would believe this liar, that I am. OOps, I used the "I am " words, am I in trouble now ?

Go and check it out for yourself. If you can't see it, fine.

Love IN Christ - MM

How many have read Isaiah 8:1 - 10 ?

If not, maybe it is time you did !

How was - God with us , in verse 10 ? < This is where the "interpretation" in Matthew 1:23 comes from.

I appeal to your logic here. How was God with them ?

Through Immanuel , correct ?

Immanuel is a name - Isaiah 7:14

Yet, God told him to call this son of a virgin, who was also a prophtess, she conceived, and bare a son, and God told them to "Call his name - "Ma-her-shal-al-hash-baz". < It does not say name him this name. His name is Immanuel. Just like Peter, when Jesus named him Peter. Peter was not his name. The name Peter carries with it a connotation. The same is true with the name Immanuel - the connotation is "Ma-her-shal-al-hash-baz". (Notice the witnesses - TWO in verse 2)

The name Immanuel, should be interpreted - "God with him".

God was with us, through this son Immanuel.

In Matthew - God was with us through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was Immanuel. Which should be interpreted - "God with him". In the book of Isaiah, the son born of a virgin was literally named Immanuel. In the book of Matthew, the son was only figuratively named Immanuel. His given name was Jesus. In Isaiah, his given name was Immanuel.

Love IN Christ - MM

Ma-her-shal-al-hash-baz

Ma -- what

her -- conception

shal -- your error

al ---- from on high

hash -- piece or pieces

baz ---- spoil

Now read Isaiah 8:9 & 10 & verse 11

IN Christ - MM

Now let me give you another example of a name that carries with it a connotation.

The name Jacob - means - following after

God changed his name to Israel - which means - ruling with God

This became the name of the Nation of God, the Nation of Israel - The Nation that God would rule with, or through.

Jesus was the Immanuel - God with him - For God was in (with) Christ.

John 16:27 - "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came "out from" God"

John 14:6 - "Jesus said unto him (Thomas) I am the way, the truth, and the life : no man cometh unto the Father, but by me"

John 14:7 - "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also : and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him"

John 14:9 - speaking to Philip - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me , Philip ? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father ; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father ?"

John 14:10 - "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me ? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself : but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works"

John 14:11 - "Verily, verily, I say unto you (not I, but the Father tells me to tell you) He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also ; and greater works than these shall he do ; because I go unto my Father"

John 14:26 - "But the comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name (Christ), he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you"

John 15:4 - "Abide in me, and I in you"

John 15:7 - "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you" (Remember , his words are not his words, but his Father's words)

John 15:15 - "Henceforth I call you not servants ; for the servant knoweth not what his Lord doeth : but I have called you friends ; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you"

John 15:26 - "But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me"

John 15:27 - "And ye also shall bear "witness" , because ye have been with me from the beginning" (Chosen from before the foundations of the earth)

John 17:14 "Jesus speaking" - "I have given them thy Word ; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world"

John 17:16 - "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world"

John 17:17 - "Sanctify them(the chosen Christians) through thy truth : thy Word is truth" - Thy Word, not his word. The Word Jesus speaks are not his words. They are his Father's Words.

And who is his Father ?

Let Jesus speak for himself - John 20:17 "My God, is your God, My Father is your Father"



Love IN Christ - MM

Hervey, dear Hervey (MM)~

First, I detect anger, or at least frustration. That is fine; I've felt the same.

Second, please do not assume that because I am not agreeing or understanding that it means I am lazy. My house is dirty, my laundry undone, I have stayed up late in all this, and I am also trying to read, read, read my Bible, and care for my many animals. Time has its constraints, and so does my flesh. May I assure you I am not "lazy".

Third, I have never before worked with a lexicon, so I am trying to learn how to use the one I downloaded. Hopefully, it is not as complicated as it appears. I have no one to teach me, so I must figure it out on my own, by trial and error.

Fourth, with this thread we have divided the topic we are truly debating into two places, which increases the difficulty.

Fifth, as the multiple posts directly above testify, you are throwing way too much at me all at once. We need to slow down and address one thing at a time.

I will try to study through the above posts, but not tonight. So, please do not post more, unless you desire, but truly I can not keep up.

Peace to you~
Nancy

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Hervey, dear Hervey (MM)~

First, I detect anger, or at least frustration. That is fine; I've felt the same.

Second, please do not assume that because I am not agreeing or understanding that it means I am lazy. My house is dirty, my laundry undone, I have stayed up late in all this, and I am also trying to read, read, read my Bible, and care for my many animals. Time has its constraints, and so does my flesh. May I assure you I am not "lazy".

Third, I have never before worked with a lexicon, so I am trying to learn how to use the one I downloaded. Hopefully, it is not as complicated as it appears. I have no one to teach me, so I must figure it out on my own, by trial and error.

Fourth, with this thread we have divided the topic we are truly debating into two places, which increases the difficulty.

Fifth, as the multiple posts directly above testify, you are throwing way too much at me all at once. We need to slow down and address one thing at a time.

I will try to study through the above posts, but not tonight. So, please do not post more, unless you desire, but truly I can not keep up.

Peace to you~
Nancy

I fully understand. There is no rush. I never believed you to be lazy per se. But many times we are way too quick, and rush to a conclusion without checking first. We assume , before we are absolutely sure what we truely want to express . We should be anxious for nothing, as the Word tells us.

This holds true when we study the Word. Sometimes we come here with a preconcieved belief. And what happens, is that we all of a sudden find out, maybe for the first time, that someone believes differently. We become defensive , instead of allowing the conversation to flow within a reasonable manner.

God Bless you in His precious Son's name - Jesus Christ

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Hervey, dear Hervey (MM)~

First, I detect anger, or at least frustration. That is fine; I've felt the same.

Second, please do not assume that because I am not agreeing or understanding that it means I am lazy. My house is dirty, my laundry undone, I have stayed up late in all this, and I am also trying to read, read, read my Bible, and care for my many animals. Time has its constraints, and so does my flesh. May I assure you I am not "lazy".

Third, I have never before worked with a lexicon, so I am trying to learn how to use the one I downloaded. Hopefully, it is not as complicated as it appears. I have no one to teach me, so I must figure it out on my own, by trial and error.

Fourth, with this thread we have divided the topic we are truly debating into two places, which increases the difficulty.

Fifth, as the multiple posts directly above testify, you are throwing way too much at me all at once. We need to slow down and address one thing at a time.

I will try to study through the above posts, but not tonight. So, please do not post more, unless you desire, but truly I can not keep up.

Peace to you~
Nancy

Anger ? No --- Frustration ? No --- Dissapointment , yes

Love IN Christ - MM

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by Mysteryman

Anger ? No --- Frustration ? No --- Dissapointment , yes

Love IN Christ - MM

Is that God's Spirit or your flesh, MM?

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase" I Cor 3:6-7