[rodgertutt]

In the first three chapters of Ephesians, (a key book regarding God’s plan for man relative to the fullness of the times) aion is used seven times. And out of those seven, the KJV has chosen five different English words (“ages,” “course,” “end,” “eternal,” and “world.”) to translate this one word.

And to add to this confusion, it translates the Greek word genea (generation), a totally different word, twice as “ages.”

Talk about confusion compounded!

Is it any wonder the church has been blinded from God’s truth about the purpose of His judgments and His eonian plan to save all fallen creatures?!

Simply put, the Scriptures do not take up the philosophical concept of eternity, but rather speak of eons and that which pertains to them. Of course God’s glory exceeds the eons, but His glory is reflected by His Son during the eons as they are presented in Scripture.

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study

The salvation of first fruits of election, the remnant chosen by grace out of each generation, will be completed after the first resurrection.
The salvation of the non-elect will be completed after the great white throne judgment.
For scriptural evidence that this is so see
God's Plan Of The Ages; The Purpose Of God In This Age; Redemption In Two Parts; As In Adam - So In Christ; Every Man In His Own Order; All Things In Subjection; God All In All

[Amadeus]

The confusion, it seems to me, lies in attempting to pursue that which above and beyond than our ways by our ways.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isa 55:8-9

Finding God's Truth does not occur by simply finding a better translation. My German is good and my Spanish is better, but my Greek and Hebrew are non-existent.

If I cannnot learn those languages and I do not have access to the original manuscripts, then does that mean that I will always be confused and can never be saved? Or should I simply accept by faith that your translations/explanations -you also do not have access to the original manuscripts since they no longer exist- are better than the ones I have been using because you say that they are?

God has provided us with a Way to salvation and it is not, I believe, by finding a more accurate translation.

[rodgertutt]

A great introductory series to ultimate reconciliation. J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic. Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universalism from a solid biblical perspective. Highly Recommended!

Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World

[Watchman]

Without respect to the links provided in the OP [I didn't read them], the tenor and context of the book of Ephesians is estabished by Paul in chapter 1.

[color="Blue"]Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
.
.
[Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
/COLOR]

The context of 'time' is well established by the clause 'before the foundation of the world'. Foundation being the 'katabole' [Gr.], meaning overthrow of the previous world age. [See 2 Pet. 3, Jer. 4, and Gen. 1:2.]

By use of the term 'chosen', there is direct inference that there is also a group that were 'not chosen'. Christ, Himself, addresses these two groups for salvation in Joh 6:39-40.

There should be no confusion whatsoever regarding the first 3 chapters of Ephesians.

[rodgertutt]

For me the "key issue" to this link (that you say you did not read) is that sooner or later all fallen creatures will be saved from everything from which the need to be saved, including their stubborn wills, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross.
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

God’s purposes are not completed in this current age, but worked out in successive ages. (Eph. 2:7) The message of God’s saving work through Christ is glorious, and it is not limited to this lifetime as the orthodox church would have us believe. It is not in God’s plan “to save as many as He can before this life ends” only to throw the rest of His precious creation in the dumper for all eternity. Jesus did not pray for the world, but for those whom the Father gave Him (the disciples). (John 17) Those who are Calvinists will twist this prayer of Jesus to say that God only has intentions to save the elect, while the rest are reserved for never-ending punishment, but they make the same critical mistake that most of Christendom does in that they do not see that God’s purposes for mankind do not end with this life.
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Read it this time.

Everything will be accomplished in GOD’S TIME, not ours. God’s purpose in this age is to bring a people to Himself (elect) in order to reach the non-elect in the ages to come. He is calling US in order to show forth His kindness to OTHERS in the ages to come. Once you see this truth, you will then understand why most people will never come to Christ in this age. This does not mean God has forsaken the many and given them up to suffer never-ending punishments. The mercy, love, and compassion of our God will never fail and the Good Shepherd will keep on seeking and saving until each and every last sheep (good and bad) is brought into the fold.

The following link is a great exposition on what we believe Bible teaches about this subject.
I sugest to you that actually reading our point of view will help you understand it, even if you can't agree with it.
GOD ALL IN ALL
God, All in All!

Watchman,

You may think it's your birthday.....or maybe it's because Christmas approaches.

For sure it's a 'red letter day'.....because I agree with you.

(Just as I do with John Amadeus)

Mike.

[rodgertutt]

IMO the greatest of all manifestation of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe that God is going to sustain anyone alive in a state of inescapable everlasting suffering and not have a nervous breakdown thinking about it.

My testimony contains information that, according to the many entries in my guest book, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, is helping many people in the same way that it helped me.
My guest book can be accessed towards the bottom of my front page at
Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt

My guest book only holds 150 messages. Then the oldest ones are automatically deleted to make room for the newest ones.

Also see the testimonies at
Visitor Comments and Testimonies

Also see
Fruit from the Teaching of Hell

Also see
consequences
(if necessary, copy and paste into browser address bar)

And here is the testimony of Charles Slagle who went through the same kind of breakdown that I went through (for twelve years) over our inability to love a god who would allow inescapable everlasting suffering.
It's on the internet in two places.
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
absolute assurance in jesus christ
or
Absolute Assurance

In a way I am happy for anyone that is not bothered to the point of insanity by that concept because I wouldn't want my worst enemy to go through the stark horror that I went through from 1966-78. I'm 71 now.

I am SO THANKFUL that I learned that there exists an alternate point of view about the subject!

[Watchman]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

For me the "key issue" to this link (that you say you did not read) is that sooner or later all fallen creatures will be saved from everything from which the need to be saved, including their stubborn wills, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross.

For those that believe in the Bible, your position is completely false. Satan has fallen and will perish in the Lake of Fire [Rev. 20:10]. The [7,000] fallen angels will perish [Jud 1:6]. Those that don't pass the test of this age will perish [Rev. 20:15].

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

God’s purposes are not completed in this current age, but worked out in successive ages. (Eph. 2:7) The message of God’s saving work through Christ is glorious, and it is not limited to this lifetime as the orthodox church would have us believe. It is not in God’s plan “to save as many as He can before this life ends” only to throw the rest of His precious creation in the dumper for all eternity. Jesus did not pray for the world, but for those whom the Father gave Him (the disciples). (John 17) Those who are Calvinists will twist this prayer of Jesus to say that God only has intentions to save the elect, while the rest are reserved for never-ending punishment, but they make the same critical mistake that most of Christendom does in that they do not see that God’s purposes for mankind do not end with this life.

Your position, "not in God's plan to save as many as He can before this life ends", is completely false for we that believe in the Bible. Ephesians is written to the 'predestinated' -- not the ones not chosen. So, their ticket to the eternity [next age] is already established [based upon actions in the prior age (for the deeper student)]. Eph. 2:7 addresses the predestinated's reward in the next 'age' as they are saved by grace [2:8].

The rest of the people are not covered by this scripture. They are the 'whomsoever will' people for salvation, as addressed elsewhere in the Bible [Joh 3:16, 6:40]. You need to keep the sciptures in correct context.

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

Everything will be accomplished in GOD’S TIME, not ours. God’s purpose in this age is to bring a people to Himself (elect) in order to reach the non-elect in the ages to come. He is calling US in order to show forth His kindness to OTHERS in the ages to come. Once you see this truth, you will then understand why most people will never come to Christ in this age. This does not mean God has forsaken the many and given them up to suffer never-ending punishments. The mercy, love, and compassion of our God will never fail and the Good Shepherd will keep on seeking and saving until each and every last sheep (good and bad) is brought into the fold.

Once again, you are in complete error. The non-elect are to be tested and have their single opportunity for salvation either in their flesh body or in their spiritual body during the Lord's Day -- all part of this current age [Joh 3:16, Rev. 20]. The purpose of this current age is given in 2 Pet. 3:7

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

In the age in which we live now, the ungodly among us will be judged and will perish. You really need to study better.

[Watchman]

Originally Posted by diebamted21

Watchman,

You may think it's your birthday.....or maybe it's because Christmas approaches.

For sure it's a 'red letter day'.....because I agree with you.

(Just as I do with John Amadeus)

Mike.

LOL....two people can always find something to agree upon.

Merry Christmas Mike!

[rodgertutt]

Of course, being in "complete error" is an opinion.

Some might like to be aware of the evidence why some of us think that the Bible teaches universal salvation rather than annihilation.

Is the Doctrine of Limited Punishment, Terminated by Destruction True?
The Doctrine of Limited Punishment, Terminated by Destruction.

An online book that shows why we believe the Bible teaches universal salvation rather than annihilation is ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch.
WILL UNBELIEVERS BE ANNIHILATED - chapters three and four
(If necessary copy and paste the following url into your browser address bar. It does work that way. I tested it.)
http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=||KNOCH, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author

There are also several expositions that do the same thing on a less comprehensive scale. They are accessed through the search engine at the top of the front page at Jesus saves all mankind, the truly Good News, Christian universalism--Ultimate Reconcilation--Doctrine of Inclusion--Restitution of all--Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Gospel of the Bible

For example, two are
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION ONE STEP OUT OF HELL
Eternal Death (Annihilation): One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory
Or
JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE WORD DESTRUCTION?
Just What Do You Mean By The Word DESTRUCTION?

Here is an intro to the book
ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch (222 pages)
Concordant Publishing Concern
Concordant Publishing Concern

Introduction:
"The blood of Christ is the basis of all blessing. The purpose of God determines human destiny. It does not depend on our deserts. The plan or process of God during the eons or ages must be distinguished from His purpose which will not be fully accomplished until the eons are past. Herein lies the difference between the teaching of the Scriptures and the accepted creeds of Christendom.

The believer suffers in the current era because of sin, but will be released in the resurrection at the presence of Christ. The unbeliever will have affliction and anguish for his sins in the judgment, but he also becomes reconciled to God at the consummation, through the blood of Christ’s cross. (Col.1-20).

Universal reconciliation is the glorious goal toward which all leads. All of God’s purpose is achieved through Him Who is the Alpha and the Omega (Rev.1:8). “In Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him [God delights] to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens” (Col.1:19,20).

The terms translated “forever” and “everlasting” and “never” are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times. Much in our common creeds is true if confined within the eons, but it is most malignant error when forced beyond the eons.

Since judgment is not eternal, but eonian, we may accept all the solemn threats of death and condemnation without reservation, while happily exulting in God’s grand goal to which all His labors lead: that God may be All in All (1Cor.15:28)."
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada