Is this not the big discussion today in our fight for holy living and trying to get control over ourselves? What is God's part and what is ours?

Many will say, God's part was to die for us, to redeem us, to buy us back and give us a second chance. And now, with gratefullness in our hearts, we obey His commandments because we are told to by the Lord.

Ok, acid test time. Does this way work? Have we found gratefullness sufficient motivation to become holy and to lay down the things of this world, eschewing all for the knowledge of Him? I think the answer is sadly evident, that no matter how grateful we are to God for His amazing sacrifice, we are still coming up far short of the glory of God.

Others are more insistant as to the requirements of the law, that God is a demanding God and if you really mean business, you WILL obey and there are no excuses. Again, acid test time. Does it work? Or does it simply make for a new generation of pharisees, more content to clean the cup from the outside and then pridefully demand that all others do it because they themselves made a "fair show in the flesh"?

Then there are those moved by the love of God, who do not walk in holiness, but who magnify the sacrifice to such an extent that God now is found to "wink" at our shortcomings and make up whatever lack we find in our own efforts.

This path seems to be the current trend, and yet, in truth, it is potentially the most deceptive. It turns the grace of God into lasciviousness, and undercuts the very message of our Lord, that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. It flies into the face of Paul's statement, nay, his warning, that

"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" His answer needs to resound through the ranks of every single Christian's assembly.

"God forbid! How can we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein??"

So if it is not gratitude, nor legalism nor abused grace that will help us to do our part, walk a holy life, free from the encumbrances of the world and its myriad of temptations, then what is the answer?

The answer is that God has told us that He will take responsibility for His part, and then miraculously for ours as well! What?? Does this not fly in the face of free will? At first glance, perhaps, but only because we do not understand free will at all. You see, we have free will in our flesh, and again, we still have free will if we are walking in the spirit. In the flesh, free will is really rebellion, a freedom to choose to disobey. Yet, in the spirit, God has promised an amazing thing. He has promised to "cause us to walk in His statutes"

What? But what of free will. How can a man be caused to do something and yet retain His free will to choose? It makes no sense to the natural mind. What we fail to understand is that God has promised a brand new nature, a new heart.

Let me ask you something. If you are in a store and there are no cameras, no monitors, no detectives looking for shoplifters, do you shoplift? No. Do you not have free will? Yes. Do you not worry about being tempted to shoplift? Not at all. Why? Because it goes against your nature, not because it is illegal. You are an honest person, so even though the temptation and opprtuinity is there, you choose to do what is right, every single time.

Saints! God has promised in Ezekiel 36 to put a new spirit within us and cause us to walk in his statutes. What a wonderful promise to those who have struggled long and hard with disbedience or with spiritual dryness!

"Impossible", you say? "God does not want robots!" you cry out. No, you are correct, He wants loving children with new natures with the fleshly nature reckoned dead as He has instructed us. He wants children who have voluntarily chosen His will over their own, who have seen the great need for fleeing the fleshly nature, and for putting on the new creature that loves God and man alike.

May I share with you a great example of God's great mercy towards us, taking full responsibility for our part as well as His?

In old testament times, a covenant, or agreement between two parties was "cut". Animal sacrifices were slain and halved, then laid down with a path between the halves. The two parties would then walk the path between the sacrificed animals, vowing that if either broke the covenant, they would be worthy of death.

Did you know that God "cut" a covenant with Abraham? Amazingly, it is the same covenant that we walk under today, the everlasting covenant thru the blood of the lamb. God instructed Abraham to slay the animals and lay them out and they would then walk together thru the pieces, confirming that God vowed that He would do His part and we vowed on penalty of death that we would indeed do ours. But an amazing thing happened. God proceeded to put Abraham into a deep sleep and proceeded to walk the pieces alone!

Oh, do you see it, dear saints? Do you see what God was saying to us? His actions shouted...

"I will take responsibility for my part of the covenant, but I also will take responsibility for yours as well. I know the stature of man and I know your willingness to do my will, and yet, I know as well your lack of power to fulfill your hearts desire. Therefore, I willingly take your part in the cutting of this covenant, and promise that I will cause you to will and to do of my good pleasure."

Do we lose our free will? Never. Do we become robots for God? Let it never be. But God has promised He will fill our hearts with Himself.... fill us to overflowing. There will be no room for secret sin, or worldliness, or rebellion. Full. God will fill our new hearts full.

Read the entire chapter of Ezekiel 36, for it is for us, for today. At the end, vs 37, God says this....

"I shall yet be enquired of by the House of Israel, to do it for them."

Children of the most high, are you finally ready for God to do it for you? He is willing to take full responsibility of you will but yield all to Him, give up your own strength, your own righteousness, your own efforts to walk holy before Him and let Him "do it for you."

The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked; who can know?
I the Lord search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
And according to the fruit of his doings.
Jeremiah 17: 9-10

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy, and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. James 3:17

Originally Posted by MMari

Bruce, looking at what winsome posted (which actually was for me) take out the words "but I will be a better person for having applied the Gospel to that situation." If I insert "but I will become more Christ like for having applied the Gospel to that situation," make it more paltable to you?Originally Posted by winsome
Seraphim quoted from Matthew Gallatin, an Orthodox. I’ll give a quote from Matthew Kelly, a Catholic

The solution to the problems that plague our lives and the Church is unchanging and singular. The problems are many; the solution is solitary. Personal holiness is the answer to every problem. In every situation of my life, in every problem, in every difficulty, I know that if I apply the values and principles of the Gospel to that circumstances, it will turn out for the best. It may not turn out as I wish, but I will be a better person for having applied the Gospel to that situation. And because of that my future will be richer. Holiness is simply the application of the values of the Gospel to the circumstances of our everyday lives – one moment at a time.

When Jesus had fasted for 40 days and 40 nights and was hungry the devil tempted him. Jesus's response was in Luke 4:4 "Man shall not live by bread alone but every word which proceeds out of the mouth of God." Also see Deuteronomy 8:3.

In the above quote from Winsome I find Holiness refers to applying the values of the Gospel to the circumstances of our everday lives one moment at a time. I see this meaning that we use the word of God and apply it to our lives or any specific circumstances. There is alot contained within the Gospels which pertains to life and godliness.


It may not turn out as I wish, but I will be a better person for having applied the Gospel to that situation. And because of that my future will be richer.

Better
1. of superior quality or excellence
2. morally superior; more virtuous

In this particular phrase I find that it is pretty scriptural. If I apply the word of God to my life "in faith" and choose that over other ways I could deal with circumstances, I have chosen a better or more excellent way. Having done this my life will be richer in Christ because I have walked in obedience to Him as I have done what the scriptures has instructed me to do.



In 2 Timothy 3: 16-17 it is written, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for instruction in righteousness 17. that the man of God may be complete and equipped for every good work.


Hebrews 11: 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I think there are times in life we need to get past personal biases and allow the Holy Spirit to be the one who waters the seed of His word. I do not see anything about what Winsome shared as being wrong except someone's own interpretation of what he said.

As you told me on another post, this was the wrong answer that belonged elsewhere. I say this only becasue there is great truth on the cutting of the covenant that God did with Abraham that affects us and our part of the bargain. Thanks Marilyn.

Originally Posted by BruceG

As you told me on another post, this was the wrong answer that belonged elsewhere.

Please provide the text from the post your refering, word for word. Where she said, "This is the wrong answer that belonged elsewhere" her text was "Lol.... now I have the right thread it might make some sense..."

Gospel says.....

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

John 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Multiple witnesses are present in the thread you're speaking of that disagree with you.

Originally Posted by RollingThunder

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

John 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

This was done in your thread in disagreement with you. I request you provide what is written in the Gospel

What? I do not understand the post nor the purpose of it, Shannon. Can you explain it for me?

[Linsinbigler]

If I might interject. Bruce, I think that you misunderstood Marilyn's post, and Shannon thinks that you are misapplying it. You had stated: "As you told me on another post, this was the wrong answer that belonged elsewhere. I say this only becasue there is great truth on the cutting of the covenant that God did with Abraham that affects us and our part of the bargain. Thanks Marilyn." What she actually said was: "Lol.... now I have the right thread it might make some sense..." and I believe that it is here being clarified that the way you interpreted what she said was not the way she meant it, and
that she did not think it was the wrong answer--that's not what she was saying; rather, she thinks it is the right answer. Hope this helps perhaps to clarify a bit.

Originally Posted by Linsinbigler

If I might interject. Bruce, I think that you misunderstood Marilyn's post, and Shannon thinks that you are misapplying it. You had stated: "As you told me on another post, this was the wrong answer that belonged elsewhere. I say this only becasue there is great truth on the cutting of the covenant that God did with Abraham that affects us and our part of the bargain. Thanks Marilyn." What she actually said was: "Lol.... now I have the right thread it might make some sense..." and I believe that it is here being clarified that the way you interpreted what she said was not the way she meant it, and
that she did not think it was the wrong answer--that's not what she was saying; rather, she thinks it is the right answer. Hope this helps perhaps to clarify a bit.

LOL, actually, I must be having a "slow" day mentally. She replied to another post the very same response and then responded again and apologized for misplacing the same response in the wrong thread. I think from my response to her clarifying for readers the mistake, it was assumed by Shannon I had said something inappropriate to Marilyn and if he did not read the other post, he would have not known that.

No biggie at all. I just hope people wade thru the confusion and read on the cutting of the covenant, because it is a great picture of the willingness of our God to give assurance not only that He will do His part, but He will take responsibility for us to do ours as well. Thanks for interjecting and trying to clear up the misunderstanding.

bruce