Originally Posted by CI

It appears you asked more than one. Anyway, answer to above is yes. It doesn't mean that is the right thing to do, but it is the reality of some struggling with various kinds of sin just as Romans 7.

There comes a time, after attaining a certain height of maturity in godliness, that entanglement with the world is a no-no. That is when a saint has obtain the knowledge of God and ultimately partaken of the power of the world to come.

See scripture below and notice that it emphasizes the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Not all faithfuls have that knowledge, but every faithful is a part of the Church. And, not all men have faith.



So, it reduces to what we understand as the faith of God. Any body can believe... and that work is self spun. But, not all who believe have received the gift called the faith of God - example, the devil.




Just your thought as you have correctly stated. How does one believe "intellectually" or in the "heart"? Give examples using scriptures and not what you intellectually think, please.

Faith that comes from God hubs in the heart of any one who receives that gift from God. The Spirit is God and gives the gift of faith as fruit. It comes by hearing, which hearing comes by the Word of God who is Spirit.

What is honor? Rather, how do we honor God?

Honor is the acknowledgment and appreciation of power. Therefore, giving honor to God is by the acknowledgment and appreciation of His divine power.

One who does not believe God cannot give God honor (by acknowledging and appreciating the power of). That is what Jesus Christ meant by the red quotation above.

One to whom is given the gift of faith honors God as one of the steps of that faith received. Abraham honored God as one of the steps of faith. Abraham believed God and it (his faith - see Rom. 4:9) imputed righteousness unto him.

Believe alone does not impute righteousness... or the devil will be righteous. But faith imputes righteousness. Righteousness, also, is one of the steps of faith.

So, by those two steps, we can clearly see that believing is not the same as having faith. As written earlier, any one can believe as his own self spun work, but faith is a gift that comes from God and is not generated by any man.



Faith is not based on humility. Rather, humility is one thing in the love of God. Faith is different from love. Faith is simply the Word of God in a seed form.

That is why you cannot "stretch" faith, but if faith is as small as a mustard seed, the mountain can be prayed to be planted in the sea and it happens. Note that I italicized both mountain and sea for a reason.

Like every seed germinates and grows into a fruit bearing tree, so does the faith of God grow through stages and forms ultimately into the fruit bearing Spirit who is the Word of God on earth. That is how come the Spirit comes by hearing of faith - see Gal. 3:5.

Both faith and the Spirit are entirely based on the spoken (speech) words of God. That is why faith cometh by hearing; without speech, there is no hearing. Without the hearing of faith, the Spirit does not come.

Jesus Christ never said the Laodicean Church was rife with unbelief.

What do you mean by spiritual low? Again, don't give your own thoughts but scriptures, please.

Have you ever heard that blessed are the poor in Spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God? One who is poor in Spirit is lacking/low in the Spirit.

If so, why do you think Jesus Christ will spew out of His mouth a poor/low in Spirit heir of the kingdom of God?

Let us desire the knowledge of God, specifically the understanding that is a gift from God. Let no man despise knowledge, for it is God who made both the mind and heart of a man that His knowledge may reside therein. Glory unto His name for ever!


---
Grace and peace from God and from His Christ unto all!

CI, you have proved my point. If a man or a woman is found struggling like the man in Romans 7, we must identify who that man was. It was a man trying to serve God under the law, through works of self rather than through trust in God to do in us what he has clearly promised. The desire might be there, but the law provides no empowerment. And the law is not of faith but of human effort.

If we are entangled in this world, and knowing full well that it is displeasing to God, we choose to remain there, we are not walking in faith in him, but faith in ourselves, that we know best and that we can, like the laodecian church, think they can walk pleasing to God in faith, and yet, have their hearts totally divided. It is not faith they are exercising, but mental ascent and self assurance. This faith does not give us a soothed conscience but a self assured one, and because of that, there is no true peace, no true joy.

Let no one assure you if your heart is found in unbelief. Oh, I am not talking about believing if Christ died and rose again. The devils believe that and tremble. I am talking about believing HIM.... His words as fully true.

If he tells us that those that are in the flesh cannot please God, is our tendancy to let the weight of that amazing revelation bring us to our knees, or do we want to begin twisting it so we can somehow explain it away, as if it does not mean what it so clearly states.

If we are told we are not in the flesh but in the spirit if so be that the spirit dewlls in us, do we immediately find ourselves going into self defense mode or do we let it cut us to heal us?

It is our choice, but one path leads to life and one path leads to defeat and misery.

Originally Posted by BruceG

We all have a decision to make. I have been reading with interest here the discussion as to the words of Jesus versus the words of Paul. Do these now contradict? Do we forget that Paul met Jesus face to face to get his revelation? Is the word of God now a contradiction? Jesus told us the end result of what He sought, paul told us how to get there. There is no contradiction here in their words. Paul Himself said if we are picking and choosing what we will follow, and whom, we are yet carnal. So somehow, we can now be only followers of Jesus and throw out the rest of the revealed will of God? If that is the truth, God help us.

God's word is perfect. Its truths are truths that will either justify us or condemn us on the last day. If we find parts of it we are not measuring up to, we must be careful not to simply run back to where our hearts are not convicted. We must embrace all of it, even the hard to understand parts, in order to have God be able to fully do with us what He desires, to fill us with all the fullness of Himself.

Greetings Bruce,

I notice you put more emphasis on the Damascus road then the straight and narrow road. Speaking of the ‘event’ of the Damascus road, I take it you never got the memo. There is something the theologians have known all along, something other religious historians have made them fess up to in recent years. As much plagiarizing as Paul did, he never laid claim to that event. As much plagiarizing as Luke did, he never put those words in Paul’s mouth. That ‘event’ never showed up in any copies of the letters until well over a hundred years after they were both dead. This is public info, feel free to research it yourself. You will find that Paul was never the only one, and far from being the first ‘prophet’ that was struck down and blinded by some god. It was someone else that added that in at a later date, and understandably so. When you take someone like Paul who never knew Jesus of Nazareth, and try and put him on the same pedestal as someone who did know Jesus (like Peter), you have to make him out to be bigger than life. And what better way to do this than to give the new ‘prophet’ the same attributes of ‘prophets’ from other religions, particularly when you are trying to entice the followers of the old prophets into a new ‘church’.

One needs to keep in mind that Jesus sent in His place thee Spirit of truth, a spiritual presence. He would never send anyone in His place that would encourage people to follow someone other than Himself. I notice your incessant attempts to take the focus away from Jesus of Nazareth and fix the focus on someone else, in your case Paul. That is the sole intent and purpose of the ‘adversary’ as well, to lead people astray and get them to fix their focus on and follow someone other than Jesus of Nazareth. Your comment to Peggy: “Paul told us how to get there.” Since when is Paul ‘the way’? Jesus is thee ‘Way’ and he alone shows us the true way, and quite clearly in His own words. (By the way, thee ‘gospel’ as found in those first four books of the N.T. have never been in need of any further explanation or embellishment, and certainly never needed any alterations.)

Speaking of the ‘adversary‘. One purpose Jesus of Nazareth did in His mortal life was to share the gospel, the ‘good news’, more than just teaching it, He lived a life as to set an example for others to follow. He gave this to us with the intent, the ‘ideal’, that if everyone followed Him then all would become children of the one true God and become members of the only true functional ‘family’ to ever exist on the face of the earth. He sent in His place thee Spirit of Truth to guide us along that ‘Way’. But thee Spirit of truth does indeed have a competitor. One that I refer to as the ‘holey spirit’ which preaches a doctrine that has more holes in it than a block of swiss cheese (sounds like the whole world will fall into those holes and be swallowed up). This other spiritual presence, the ‘adversary, again has only one purpose and that is to lead people astray and get them to follow someone other than Jesus of Nazareth and become members of a counterfeit ‘family’ that is by far the most dysfunctional family on the face of the earth, it is called christianity. This very forum bears witness as to how dysfunctional that counterfeit ‘family’ is. It is a result of people following someone other than Jesus of Nazareth. It is a result of people following those who say: “Follow me as I follow Jesus.” Whether it be Paul of Tarsus (1Cr 11:1), Jim of Jonestown, David of Waco, etc. The simple fact that they encouraged people to follow someone other than Jesus of Nazareth is all the proof I need to know they were following 'someone' other than Jesus of Nazareth.


I realize how hard it will be for you to accept this. I fully understand how much you admire Paul of Tarsus. That is more than obvious by your own words. I have noticed in your threads and posts where your heart is. I have crossed paths with so many people over the years that say ‘it’s all about Jesus’, but it’s always Paul this and Paul that. For me it is like listening to someone talk up their wife while the whole time they have their mistress hanging on their arm. At best they pay Jesus lip service with an occasional quote. I am unable to take people like that seriously.

You know if you take the Pauline epistles and strip away all the plagiarisms and sugarcoating, then compare them to the testimony of Jesus of Nazareth, they are as different as night and day. Right down to the foundation, the very keystone. Jesus of Nazareth makes it perfectly clear that we, as individuals, are saved by our (spiritual) faith. Paul’s keystone is an ancient religious tradition of man where a blood sacrifice is offered up to appease an angry god and bribe him into releasing mankind from a collective tribal sin. Paul was the first one to compromise and corrupt the testimony of Jesus of Nazareth and lay a counterfeit foundation on which others built upon. Again, I realize how much you admire the mere mortal. Think of what a beautiful world we would live in if everyone had as much zeal for Jesus of Nazareth as you have for Paul of Tarsus. Think of the good you could do if you turned and faced Jesus of Nazareth and chose Him for your ‘master’; instead of facing Paul of Tarsus. Think of all the good you could do if you spent all that time and energy spreading the ‘good news’ instead of obsessing about sin and sowing seeds of doubt and despair in the name of the ‘devil’. If there is any truth to prophecy than it appears your ’church’ will never turn around, so give some thought to ‘coming out of her’ and only following one called Jesus of Nazareth. There’s plenty of room on that straight and narrow road.

P.S. For what it is worth. I am neither bound by or burdened with a manmade religion that dictates my God has to be a pile of paper and ink that is of this world; and the words of my God have to be, for the most part, the words of long dead barbarians who may or may not have been inspired by the one true God, and even if they were could only write according to their understanding for their day and age.

[NotFinishedYet]

Originally Posted by Josif59

Greetings Bruce,
... (By the way, thee ‘gospel’ as found in those first four books of the N.T. have never been in need of any further explanation or embellishment, and certainly never needed any alterations.)
.... Think of what a beautiful world we would live in if everyone had as much zeal for Jesus of Nazareth as you have for Paul of Tarsus. Think of the good you could do if you turned and faced Jesus of Nazareth and chose Him for your ‘master’; instead of facing Paul of Tarsus. Think of all the good you could do if you spent all that time and energy spreading the ‘good news’ instead of obsessing about sin and sowing seeds of doubt and despair in the name of the ‘devil’. If there is any truth to prophecy than it appears your ’church’ will never turn around, so give some thought to ‘coming out of her’ and only following one called Jesus of Nazareth. There’s plenty of room on that straight and narrow road.

P.S. For what it is worth. I am neither bound by or burdened with a manmade religion that dictates my God has to be a pile of paper and ink that is of this world; and the words of my God have to be, for the most part, the words of long dead barbarians who may or may not have been inspired by the one true God, and even if they were could only write according to their understanding for their day and age.

Mark 1:14 & 15 Young's Literal Translation:
Jesus came to Galilee, proclaiming the good news of the reign of God,
and saying -- `Fulfilled hath been the time, and the reign of God hath come nigh, reform ye, and believe in the good news.'

Originally Posted by Josif59

Greetings Bruce,

I notice you put more emphasis on the Damascus road then the straight and narrow road. Speaking of the ‘event’ of the Damascus road, I take it you never got the memo. There is something the theologians have known all along, something other religious historians have made them fess up to in recent years. As much plagiarizing as Paul did, he never laid claim to that event. As much plagiarizing as Luke did, he never put those words in Paul’s mouth. That ‘event’ never showed up in any copies of the letters until well over a hundred years after they were both dead. This is public info, feel free to research it yourself. You will find that Paul was never the only one, and far from being the first ‘prophet’ that was struck down and blinded by some god. It was someone else that added that in at a later date, and understandably so. When you take someone like Paul who never knew Jesus of Nazareth, and try and put him on the same pedestal as someone who did know Jesus (like Peter), you have to make him out to be bigger than life. And what better way to do this than to give the new ‘prophet’ the same attributes of ‘prophets’ from other religions, particularly when you are trying to entice the followers of the old prophets into a new ‘church’.

One needs to keep in mind that Jesus sent in His place thee Spirit of truth, a spiritual presence. He would never send anyone in His place that would encourage people to follow someone other than Himself. I notice your incessant attempts to take the focus away from Jesus of Nazareth and fix the focus on someone else, in your case Paul. That is the sole intent and purpose of the ‘adversary’ as well, to lead people astray and get them to fix their focus on and follow someone other than Jesus of Nazareth. Your comment to Peggy: “Paul told us how to get there.” Since when is Paul ‘the way’? Jesus is thee ‘Way’ and he alone shows us the true way, and quite clearly in His own words. (By the way, thee ‘gospel’ as found in those first four books of the N.T. have never been in need of any further explanation or embellishment, and certainly never needed any alterations.)

Speaking of the ‘adversary‘. One purpose Jesus of Nazareth did in His mortal life was to share the gospel, the ‘good news’, more than just teaching it, He lived a life as to set an example for others to follow. He gave this to us with the intent, the ‘ideal’, that if everyone followed Him then all would become children of the one true God and become members of the only true functional ‘family’ to ever exist on the face of the earth. He sent in His place thee Spirit of Truth to guide us along that ‘Way’. But thee Spirit of truth does indeed have a competitor. One that I refer to as the ‘holey spirit’ which preaches a doctrine that has more holes in it than a block of swiss cheese (sounds like the whole world will fall into those holes and be swallowed up). This other spiritual presence, the ‘adversary, again has only one purpose and that is to lead people astray and get them to follow someone other than Jesus of Nazareth and become members of a counterfeit ‘family’ that is by far the most dysfunctional family on the face of the earth, it is called christianity. This very forum bears witness as to how dysfunctional that counterfeit ‘family’ is. It is a result of people following someone other than Jesus of Nazareth. It is a result of people following those who say: “Follow me as I follow Jesus.” Whether it be Paul of Tarsus (1Cr 11:1), Jim of Jonestown, David of Waco, etc. The simple fact that they encouraged people to follow someone other than Jesus of Nazareth is all the proof I need to know they were following 'someone' other than Jesus of Nazareth.


I realize how hard it will be for you to accept this. I fully understand how much you admire Paul of Tarsus. That is more than obvious by your own words. I have noticed in your threads and posts where your heart is. I have crossed paths with so many people over the years that say ‘it’s all about Jesus’, but it’s always Paul this and Paul that. For me it is like listening to someone talk up their wife while the whole time they have their mistress hanging on their arm. At best they pay Jesus lip service with an occasional quote. I am unable to take people like that seriously.

You know if you take the Pauline epistles and strip away all the plagiarisms and sugarcoating, then compare them to the testimony of Jesus of Nazareth, they are as different as night and day. Right down to the foundation, the very keystone. Jesus of Nazareth makes it perfectly clear that we, as individuals, are saved by our (spiritual) faith. Paul’s keystone is an ancient religious tradition of man where a blood sacrifice is offered up to appease an angry god and bribe him into releasing mankind from a collective tribal sin. Paul was the first one to compromise and corrupt the testimony of Jesus of Nazareth and lay a counterfeit foundation on which others built upon. Again, I realize how much you admire the mere mortal. Think of what a beautiful world we would live in if everyone had as much zeal for Jesus of Nazareth as you have for Paul of Tarsus. Think of the good you could do if you turned and faced Jesus of Nazareth and chose Him for your ‘master’; instead of facing Paul of Tarsus. Think of all the good you could do if you spent all that time and energy spreading the ‘good news’ instead of obsessing about sin and sowing seeds of doubt and despair in the name of the ‘devil’. If there is any truth to prophecy than it appears your ’church’ will never turn around, so give some thought to ‘coming out of her’ and only following one called Jesus of Nazareth. There’s plenty of room on that straight and narrow road.

P.S. For what it is worth. I am neither bound by or burdened with a manmade religion that dictates my God has to be a pile of paper and ink that is of this world; and the words of my God have to be, for the most part, the words of long dead barbarians who may or may not have been inspired by the one true God, and even if they were could only write according to their understanding for their day and age.

Dear Josif, Do you think because I quote Paul a lot that somehow it means I do not follow my Lord, or love Him? Do you think because I speak hard but needed words that I do not love you, or the other saints here on T2O.

What is our definition of love...saying all the right things, not making waves, finding agreement lest we upset people? This is not the love I see in Jesus, nor Peter nor Paul. They said what had to be said, regardless of the outcome, and they spoke their hard messages with love in every word. Shall I compromise the truth to be seen as more loving? Will that convince people as to the truths of the word of God that are staring us in the face, truths we flat out do not want to hear?

Yet your post disturbs me, as you have taken it upon yourself to add to or take away from the words written, and you are in deep danger. Every word in the Bible is God breathed. How convenient that you have excluded much of it to fit your theology. Is that what we have reduced it to now, let's simply delete what we do not like? You are on thin ice spiritually my friend, and in far more danger than simply missing a needed answer. Your very soul is at stake.

There are multitudes today that draw near Him with their lips but their worldliness and lack of obedience to letting Him reign over them reveals their true current position. But God loves them too much to go without warning or encouragement to heed the truth of Hos very clear word.

Paul has given us a secret as to how to get victory and now we have reduced it down to having to choose between Paul and Jesus, just so that we do not have to feel responsible to the words he speaks? How sad a condition we have arrived at. Do we not know that the words of Paul ARE the words of God. Since when is the word of God split, with part inspired and profitable and part in error.

Brother, it is not the word that is in error but our very hearts as we simply want to walk on in our blindness, with a gospel that sets none free but makes us feel warm and fuzzy in religion.

I have asked pointed questions to people who say they live by the inspired word of God and yet, none can explain why God would promise something, not once, but over 20 times in twenty different ways, that sin shall not rule or reign in our lives, that absolute victory is assured by the good news of the indwelling spirit, and yet, none, even the best of those walking this path commonly accepted as leading to holiness, ever find that elusive freedom. We preach dying to sin and self a little at a time...dying daily, and yet, show me one man who has succeeded by this route. Just one! Heck, just to get saints to acknowledge there is a discrepancy is like pulling teeth, as people are afraid to be real and simply call things as they are. Why do we have such a hard time being honest as to our condition? Becasue to do so, we have to face the fact that change is requred and we can no longer live our lives and must begin living His.

What do we do with a scripture like "Sin shall not have dominion over you." or "They that are in the flesh cannot please God."? How do we explain these away,and yet readily admit to a man that the flesh is still in us and we can't get free...it is impossible?

Instead, the chosen path is to ignore the question and attack the messenger, anything so as not to have to face what the message itself states. So I ask you plainly, since you have sort of thrown down the gauntlet here, and I say it in love.... do you walk in freedom, victory over sin, where every temptation is met with the faith that gives you the way of escape? It is a simple question.

But if the answer is no, why in the heck are you not seeking for the answer with all your heart rather than trying to belittle or discredit me? It is not me you belittle, but the good news of your Lord. I am nothing, just a simple messenger telling you good news if you would but believe it, and yet you ignore God's good news for you and concentrate of disparaging me? Listen, LOL, my unworthiness was established long ago. God beat you to the punch. But I will say this, His words will not pass aawy, no matter how you ignore them, and one day, we will all be judged by those words, and by our words, our testimony, we will be justified, or we will be condemned.

How many love to draw near Him with their lips, but as to actually obeying the gospel and believing the good news, how few there are who even hunger after freedom. We are just too content in our worldly attempts at pleasing God in our own works, as long as we do not have to truly die to self.

Originally Posted by BruceG

Dear Josif, Do you think because I quote Paul a lot that somehow it means I do not follow my Lord, or love Him? Do you think because I speak hard but needed words that I do not love you, or the other saints here on T2O.

What is our definition of love...saying all the right things, not making waves, finding agreement lest we upset people? This is not the love I see in Jesus, nor Peter nor Paul. They said what had to be said, regardless of the outcome, and they spoke their hard messages with love in every word. Shall I compromise the truth to be seen as more loving? Will that convince people as to the truths of the word of God that are staring us in the face, truths we flat out do not want to hear?

Yet your post disturbs me, as you have taken it upon yourself to add to or take away from the words written, and you are in deep danger. Every word in the Bible is God breathed. How convenient that you have excluded much of it to fit your theology. Is that what we have reduced it to now, let's simply delete what we do not like? You are on thin ice spiritually my friend, and in far more danger than simply missing a needed answer. Your very soul is at stake.

There are multitudes today that draw near Him with their lips but their worldliness and lack of obedience to letting Him reign over them reveals their true current position. But God loves them too much to go without warning or encouragement to heed the truth of Hos very clear word.

Paul has given us a secret as to how to get victory and now we have reduced it down to having to choose between Paul and Jesus, just so that we do not have to feel responsible to the words he speaks? How sad a condition we have arrived at. Do we not know that the words of Paul ARE the words of God. Since when is the word of God split, with part inspired and profitable and part in error.

Brother, it is not the word that is in error but our very hearts as we simply want to walk on in our blindness, with a gospel that sets none free but makes us feel warm and fuzzy in religion.

I have asked pointed questions to people who say they live by the inspired word of God and yet, none can explain why God would promise something, not once, but over 20 times in twenty different ways, that sin shall not rule or reign in our lives, that absolute victory is assured by the good news of the indwelling spirit, and yet, none, even the best of those walking this path commonly accepted as leading to holiness, ever find that elusive freedom. We preach dying to sin and self a little at a time...dying daily, and yet, show me one man who has succeeded by this route. Just one! Heck, just to get saints to acknowledge there is a discrepancy is like pulling teeth, as people are afraid to be real and simply call things as they are. Why do we have such a hard time being honest as to our condition? Becasue to do so, we have to face the fact that change is requred and we can no longer live our lives and must begin living His.

What do we do with a scripture like "Sin shall not have dominion over you." or "They that are in the flesh cannot please God."? How do we explain these away,and yet readily admit to a man that the flesh is still in us and we can't get free...it is impossible?

Instead, the chosen path is to ignore the question and attack the messenger, anything so as not to have to face what the message itself states. So I ask you plainly, since you have sort of thrown down the gauntlet here, and I say it in love.... do you walk in freedom, victory over sin, where every temptation is met with the faith that gives you the way of escape? It is a simple question.

But if the answer is no, why in the heck are you not seeking for the answer with all your heart rather than trying to belittle or discredit me? It is not me you belittle, but the good news of your Lord. I am nothing, just a simple messenger telling you good news if you would but believe it, and yet you ignore God's good news for you and concentrate of disparaging me? Listen, LOL, my unworthiness was established long ago. God beat you to the punch. But I will say this, His words will not pass aawy, no matter how you ignore them, and one day, we will all be judged by those words, and by our words, our testimony, we will be justified, or we will be condemned.

How many love to draw near Him with their lips, but as to actually obeying the gospel and believing the good news, how few there are who even hunger after freedom. We are just too content in our worldly attempts at pleasing God in our own works, as long as we do not have to truly die to self.

Jesus of Nazareth simply says: "Follow me." I have chosen to follow Jesus of Nazareth and only Jesus of Nazareth. If you want to fault me for that, that is your choice. If I encouraged you to knock Paul of Tarsus off your pedestal and replace him with Jesus of Nazareth and you want to fault me for that, that is your choice. If anything, I was hoping you might at least start honoring Jesus of Nazareth with your lips more often, but instead you choose to defend your 'master'. I realize Paul of Tarsus is your Jim Jones, he is alot of peoples Jim Jones. Look what became of the church built on his foundation. Look at your 'church' which is built on Pauls foundation, and you wonder what is wrong with it. I choose to stand on the foundation laid by one called Jesus of Nazareth, the son of the living God. If you want to fault me for that, that is your choice. Our difference is who we have chosen as our 'master' and who we have chosen to be a voice box for. I will continue to encourage people to follow Jesus of Nazareth and live according to the words of Thee Word Himself; they contain the answer to every question, solution for every problem. I will go on bearing witness to Him and being "exceedingly glad" and continue to always "rejoice, and be of good cheer." You can go on sowing your seeds of doubt and despair in the name of your devil; seeking answers and solutions from 'someone' other than Jesus of Nazareth. I'll stay in His functional 'family' and you can stay in your dysfunctional 'church'. And that is that. Let us agree on our differences and move on.

Originally Posted by Josif59

Jesus of Nazareth simply says: "Follow me." I have chosen to follow Jesus of Nazareth and only Jesus of Nazareth. If you want to fault me for that, that is your choice. If I encouraged you to knock Paul of Tarsus off your pedestal and replace him with Jesus of Nazareth and you want to fault me for that, that is your choice. If anything, I was hoping you might at least start honoring Jesus of Nazareth with your lips more often, but instead you choose to defend your 'master'. I realize Paul of Tarsus is your Jim Jones, he is alot of peoples Jim Jones. Look what became of the church built on his foundation. Look at your 'church' which is built on Pauls foundation, and you wonder what is wrong with it. I choose to stand on the foundation laid by one called Jesus of Nazareth, the son of the living God. If you want to fault me for that, that is your choice. Our difference is who we have chosen as our 'master' and who we have chosen to be a voice box for. I will continue to encourage people to follow Jesus of Nazareth and live according to the words of Thee Word Himself; they contain the answer to every question, solution for every problem. I will go on bearing witness to Him and being "exceedingly glad" and continue to always "rejoice, and be of good cheer." You can go on sowing your seeds of doubt and despair in the name of your devil; seeking answers and solutions from 'someone' other than Jesus of Nazareth. I'll stay in His functional 'family' and you can stay in your dysfunctional 'church'. And that is that. Let us agree on our differences and move on.

Fair enough....