This post was first a reply to a poster who mentioned that what irritated him was holier than thou attitudes of Christians who tried to be more than "mere men", sinners at best. This was my response and is not directed at him personally for I have found his attituide is common actually, regardless of denomination. I welcome any responses and specifically ask before you response to fully watch the video at the end of the post before responding.



I have read your post and the ones that followed and truthfully, it saddened the heck out of me. Why? Because people called by His name were found sinners and as you put it...mere men? Yes, I suppose in a way that does bother me. But frankly, it is far more the attitude that we have towards it that makes me want to cry.

Do we not understand? Sin is what put our savior nailed thru His hands and feet on the cross. Pull up the video at the end of this post and then tell me sin does not cost. Watch His passion, His dedication, His excruciating pain in the face of unspeakable cruelty of man, of you, of me! I dare you to watch this and then speak as we do of sin, like it is something we must "tolerate", a petty annoyance in our walk, no, our stroll toward heaven.

Watch Him die. Do not turn the video off. I guarantee you will want to. Is it enough to make you sick and cry at the same time? It is for me. And you do you know who He did it for? For me and my sins and you and yours. Our sins put Him there, ours. Not the sins of the world... but mine, yours, each single one that we commit in defiance of His word to flee iniquity. FLEE IT! Do we have any idea what passion and singleness of eye God is asking of us in obedience to that command?

When we read the New Testament, any of it, can you show me ONCE where this was attitude to sin demonstated by any escaped judgement? Can you point out to me in the entire Bible that shows that God "winked" at sin, like it was nothing?

Sin has caused every war, every divorce, every mulitlation. every single child rape and case of abuse, every single evil in our world.....all by fallen man. Do not for a minute try to tell me that because you have not killed or maimed or murdered or raped or committed adultery that you are not worthy of death. The law says differently. You are guilty of all as I am.

All of our righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God. There is none good, not one. All have gone astray, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

And in spite of our blackened hearts, our wonderful Lord loved us so much that He chose to suffer and to die to set us free, not just forgive us...but to LIBERATE US!

Listen, He is not an understanding God when it comes to sin. He says He hates it. Let that fact sink in our sin sodden souls for a minute. Our God...our LOVING master....hates sin.

Sin is what caused Him to drown every single living creature on the face of the earth, save 8 souls. Sin is what caused fire to rain down on Sodom, incinerating every man, woman and child. Sin is what caused Lot's wife to become the "salt of the earth" as she looked back longingly on their life of fellowshipping with sin and worldliness. Sin is what caused God to reject His own people who constantly drifted away from him by their sins. Sin is what sent Jesus to the cross and caused God to witness OUR evil nailing Him to the tree and forced Him to look away from His own Son as He died an agonizing death.

I am not angry at you, my brothers and sisters. I am angry at Satan who has led us down this path of "religious" Christianity, promising much but delivering little, and yet with us content to remain there, take advantage of His forgiveness and then say, "no thanks" when He offers us a new heart, a robe of righteousness, death to our old selves!

When Jesus entered the temple, he watched two praying, a pharisee and a sinner. The pharisee had "mock" righteousness, and simply hid His sins under his religious "cloak". He lived like a sinner and yet still had an attitude of "I am holier than thou". The sinful man on the other hand, wept buckets of tears, tore at his modest clothing and cried out to a God who "he knew" hated evil and cried out for mercy and forgiveness and freedom. Jesus observed both types, turned to His disciples and said "Which man went away justified from His sins?" The answer shocked them. They answer still shocks today.

This is not a "denominational" problem. I know that that is not the problem. The issue is right in our hearts and our hearts are content to be in bondage to sin, as long as we stil get to remain in chage of our lives. We have become content to have our form of godliness but whether we want to admit it or not, we are denying the power of godliness by not only our lives but by our lack of faith in what God plainly tells us.

"For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God."

Are we found beating our breasts in repentance, crying out for the secret to finding this amazing deliverance from our fleshly natures that "like to sin occasionally" ? No. We are found living like the world, spouting off our unbelief filled statements that we are "just sinners saved by grace". We bring shame upon the God we say we serve and yet we do not even see it.

I am going to say something here that most will not like. God is sick of it. He loves us with a love we cannot even comprehend, but He is still sick of it, sick of our excuses, sick of our unbelief, sick of our contentment while satan toys with us...and he is sick most of all for our attitudes that could give a cr*p about the fact sin and the flesh are still alive and well in the church and that becasue of US, His name is blasphemed whereever we have gone.

We had best learn what God meant when He counseled us to buy of Him gold tried in the fire and white raiment, that our nakedness does not appear. If we do not, I am convinced the spewing is coming as our shame is mounting up to heaven.

Many may get mad at me here, as coming across as holier-than-thou, but I say this through tears, not judgement. Yes, Terry I am saved and yes, I do pray and yes I do believe the words of God that says:

"For sin shall NOT have dominion over you"

But it is not because I am better or more deserving. It is because I am more desperate. Where shall I go if I do not? Where can I go for releif from the flesh and its influences and its insistance in listening to the lies of the enemy of our souls? I know of no other place.

When Paul said"

"Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?"...what was his resounding answer?

God forbid! How can we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?".

Outside of the grace fo God, I am nothing, the worst of the worst on this site. But I will not sit down and join in in a lighthearted discussion on sin, sins that crucify the son of God afresh and make a mockery of His sacrifice. We need to repent and we need to repent with all that lies within us, for it as at this point that the battle lines will be drawn.

We must finally come face to face with the fact that God is NOT coming back for a bride that "winks at sin", that uses His blood as a covering yet not as a deliverance. He is not coming back for a church that sings "There is power, power, power in the blood" and yet does not in the faintest believe it. He is coming back for fully wakened virgins with OIL!

We are simply deceived, and fooling our own hearts, folks, if we think we will escape the judgement of God if we are still found doing and enjoying with no guilt, no conviction, the same exact things the world does, yet somehow, by a one time asking Christ in, or by our being part of a certain denomination, we are freed from the penalty for our sins but the world is not. We are MORE accountable, not less!

God help the blindness that grips our souls. I challenge all who want to have their cake and eat it too to watch your God and my God suffer and tell me sin is just a little issue. Sin is THE issue, and until we focus on it in our own walks, all else matters not a whit.


YouTube - The Passion of ther Christ - Crucifixion Watch it and weep.

Errr, the poster in question was me, ladies and germs.

Bro', I don't mean to "wink" at sin, and I don't mean to be flippant about it. I just meant that I do sin and I admit it. Thats all. Peter sinned, Paul sinned, I sin, we all sin. You know? All I meant is that there is no reason for people to pretend like they are angelic beings when they are not.

Any guy who doesn't do a double-take at a babe walking by, or who says he doesn't get "p'd off" every now and then just ain't keepin' it real. You know? Thats what I meant to say. I'm not saying God likes it, I'm just saying it happens.

Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

Errr, the poster in question was me, ladies and germs.

Bro', I don't mean to "wink" at sin, and I don't mean to be flippant about it. I just meant that I do sin and I admit it. Thats all. Peter sinned, Paul sinned, I sin, we all sin. You know? All I meant is that there is no reason for people to pretend like they are angelic beings when they are not.

Any guy who doesn't do a double-take at a babe walking by, or who says he doesn't get "p'd off" every now and then just ain't keepin' it real. You know? Thats what I meant to say. I'm not saying God likes it, I'm just saying it happens.

Terry, I meant no disrespect, either on this post or the one repled to. I have no quarrels with you nor the catholic church, nor any denomination. I do have a quarrel with satan and it is time the gloves came off.

We need to "keep it real" and admit we simply do not care if we walk delivered or not. Until we keep it real with our God, and instead choose to walk on, content in our flesh, just like all other men, we will walk on in total deception. For us to somehow think we are going to heaven despitethe fact we do the very same things the world does, and yet we get to enjoy heaven for eternity, and they get to burn in hell, we had best re-read our bibles, for that is simply NOT what it teaches. Jesus was called Jesus for "He shall save His people FROM their sins", and until we confront that fact and deal with it, we walk on in delusion and a lie. Even if it puts us on the guilty side of God, at least then we can cry out for true mercy that has power not only to forgive, but deliver.

Right now, in all honesty, we Christians serve a weakling God, one with no power over satan to destroy his works. I say that with all reverence.

Either God can do exceedingly abundantly above and beyond all that we ask or think, or He cannot.

Either we are asked to put on the whole armor of God to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one, or we cannot extinguish any of them.

Either our God can cause us to will and to do of His good pleasure, or he can't at all.

Either we are dead and our life is hid with Christ in God or we are totally exposed to the attacks of our dreaded enemy.

Either God asked us to pray believing, that he deliver us daily from every temptation, or He cannot at all and it is a waste of time.

Either we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us, or He was simply lying ot us.

Which God do we serve, Terry? Which do we want to serve? The second one brings accountability to our walks, yet also promises to make us "free indeed".It is our choice, but I tell you now, our choice on this subject will determine much in the future of our walks with God.

[christkid777]

To be honest with you Bruce I also was grieved in my heart by the idea that we would so freely throw off our hope of holiness and "knock a top off". Sometimes I feel like the reluctant executioner. I had found no way in my spirit to say the things I felt needed to be said. I like the people here and I want to be understanding of where each person is coming from. In truth I still don't feel I understand how we each see our salvation. But we are admonished to pursue holiness without which no man may see the Lord. Falling on our faces is no reason to "wallow awhile". My understanding is that we are not to claim holiness outside of Christ but we are to cling to the holiness held out to us by the hand of Christ. Our faith response is to do all we can to separate ourselves from sin. I am not 100% sure you and I are saying the same thing but I am glad you cracked this thing open.

Originally Posted by christkid777

To be honest with you Bruce I also was grieved in my heart by the idea that we would so freely throw off our hope of holiness and "knock a top off". Sometimes I feel like the reluctant executioner. I had found no way in my spirit to say the things I felt needed to be said. I like the people here and I want to be understanding of where each person is coming from. In truth I still don't feel I understand how we each see our salvation. But we are admonished to pursue holiness without which no man may see the Lord. Falling on our faces is no reason to "wallow awhile". My understanding is that we are not to claim holiness outside of Christ but we are to cling to the holiness held out to us by the hand of Christ. Our faith response is to do all we can to separate ourselves from sin. I am not 100% sure you and I are saying the same thing but I am glad you cracked this thing open.

James, in truth, I do not know if we are saying the same thing at this exact point in time either, BUT....with that said, I will say this about you as I have read most of your posts. You are real. You are genuine. You are not playing around. This is serious business to you. And that, my brother, is a HUGE advantage in seeking God and that is all it takes to win my respect. You have definitely earned it.

I was afraid after I made the posting I came across as a know it all, or the man with the answers. All I know is what God has plainly said, that the soul that seeks Him with His whole heart will find Him, and you are definitely in that number. We may be on different pages James, and perhaps coming from different angles as well, but I have no doubt we are in the same book and I thank God you are a part of this forum, and I mean that with everything in me.

This is a good post bruce. Far to many people are accepting the fact that they sin as a natural thing and just go with it.

I find in my own life when my relationship with God is not where it needs to be I tend to sway in that direction.

It is not natural for a blood bought believer to sin. When we get on that path we must remember that we have the power in us to not sin. Our sins are out of our own lusts and selfishness.

Originally Posted by christkid777

.....I also was grieved in my heart by the idea that we would so freely throw off our hope of holiness and "knock a top off".......

I don't mean to nit-pick on a tiny detail, but I honestly do not believe having a beer is a sin. Wanton drunkeness is sinful for sure, but a beer with your buddy or a glass of wine with dinner is not. I'm not a Quaker.

I just meant I'd knock the top off of a beer, not off a bottle of J.D. !

[erinblanco]

That's the problem What you are thinking and disregarding what the WORD Of GOD/people who love you are telling you by the Spirit that wrote the book!

Originally Posted by erinblanco

That's the problem What you are thinking and disregarding what the WORD Of GOD/people who love you are telling you!

The "Word of God" does not say you cannot have a beer. Jesus drank wine too.

No, he did NOT drink "grape juice", he drank wine: Not a lot, but he drank it.

See, its that extremist "Im perfect" attitude that irritates me.

Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

The "Word of God" does not say you cannot have a beer. Jesus drank wine too.

No, he did NOT drink "grape juice", he drank wine: Not a lot, but he drank it.

See, its that extremist "Im perfect" attitude that irritates me.

I never said it was Terry. You were the one who brought that up in defense of the holier than thou people. Is cursing a sin? Checking out a babe? Each can only answer for themselves.

What IS a sin is not caring if anything is or is not a sin. It is our hearts that hold OUR definition of sin, and I guarantee, there is a casualness there that is not of God.