I will preface this by simply saying that this was a post originally done by Kimberlee in general discussions on disappointing others. I responded with my thoughts. Quietude then askeded me for an axample to clarify what i meant. This is what then resulted. My prayers are with every reader that God would speak His incredible love for all through what I have experienced.


Bruce, would you please share an experience in your own life in which God caused you to walk in his ways. In other words, share an instance in which God caused you to overcome a sin or bad habit. This isn't a test. I'm truly searching here. I would so like to understand what you're saying, but I lack a frame of reference similar to yours. My personal experience is one in which God has never caused me to do anything. He has given me cause to choose certain things over others—to trust him and follow him. But I have never felt that he caused me to do anything. Caused things to happen for me that I could not cause myself, yes—but never caused me to do anything. Am I misunderstanding you here?

Well, Jesse, here goes my "reputation", LOL. But if I cannot be honest here, damaged reputation or not, then what good is it if I profess something that I cannot back up in real experience? My reputation is nothing, God's is everything. So here goes....

In my life, Jesse, like many others, I have had one issue that plagued me, a stronghold that satan carved out, a secret sin. For some is gambling addiction, or smoking or alcoholism or drug addiction. Mine was sexual lust and porn, and to be honest it "had" me.

My dad, when I was a child, had a stack of Playboys by his bedside table. By the time I was thirteen, I had a problem. Forty six tears later, I still fought the same issue, and I mean fought it. I fasted, I prayed, and I woulld carve out a little bit of "victory", maybe a week or two at most, and truly, to be really honest, even that was unusual. With the advent of the internet and the ease of access, it got even worse.

As I have said on here before, up till eight and a half months ago, I was living a life of bondage with a short chain around my ankle and my "freedom" roaming range was short indeed before the chain snapped taut and satan reminded me that I could go no further.

Let me interject here, that all in the flesh have the same chain around their leg, but some have a longer chain and perhaps a sin or sins that may be more "socially acceptable". Mine was of the ugly variety, and I hated it, and hated myself much of the time. I felt that if I really wanted to be free, I would simply choose to and satan had a field day with my mind and heart. I know from first hand experience what it is to be an addict and what it is like to be hounded by the accuser of the brethren.

Now nine months ago, I finally broke one night in despair and weepingly told God that I simply could not do it. I could not walk the walk that others seemed to walk easily. His commandments were too high, too hard, and even if I could obey, it was a "white knuckle" victory at best, and certainly not one I could rest in, because I always wondered where and when the next temptation would come from to tear me from fellowship with God. I had no joy and was truly at the end of my rope.

What happened next is hard to put into words. I say this with great reverence and awe. I saw God, in my spirit man, with my spiritual eyes, I heard Him with my spirit ears, and it was earth moving. Like Paul said, whether it was in my body or out, I cannot even tell you. But it was more real than real.

As I broke before Him in a puddle of tears and contrition and confessed my inabilities and the need for him to PLEASE do it in me, He spoke to me. Whether or not any believe me is really not important. He told me he knew I could not obey, right from the beginning and was pleased with me for my confession. Shock and awe are poor substitutes for what was happening to my spirit. Pleased with me? For this?? Do you know how long I had labored to hear those words and never did? He then opened up my understanding in His word to the secret I have been sharing here.


The secret? That we finally see that all our efforts will always result in failure to obey with the heart He desires, a pure one. The law is the coventant of self effort and the purpose of the law is simply to break us of our dependance and trust in ourselves to do it, to obey God. The purpose of the law was not to lead us to Gods bosom by showing us how to be righteous, but by leading us to the feet of Christ begging for mercy and grace. Rather, it was given as the schoolmaster to show us how truly we need a miracle to walk the walk with the heart God desires our obedience to spring forth from. But once it has done its work of truly, once for all, humbling us, its job is done.

It is now time for faith in HIM to do in for us, in us. This is when God directed me to the promises of God that are right there in front of us, plain for our eyes to see, yet promises that we have missed as we struggle for achieving victory, because we were blinded to the path of faith by our trust in our abilities to do it if we just "try harder!" I call it the gospel according to Nike...JUST DO IT!. It does not work...ever.


You see, we cannot believe 100% in God if there is still trust in ourselves. Until we die to self effort and reliance on our efforts to get holy, which is really frustrating the grace of God, we simply cannot put on the new man by faith which God has made available to us.


Ok, back to my "stronghold". Jesse, as God is my witness, the chains fell off me like a hot knife through cold butter. Lust was GONE. The new covenant did exactly what it said it would do. It set me free.


Practically, though, you may ask, how did it and does it continue to work out in real life? We all know we live in a sexual society, with sex used by the advertising industry to sell just about everything. You cannot run anywhere without being bombarded with temptation. Do you know what I see now? I no longer see naked bodies, or picture immoral acts, I see souls...deceived souls. I feel compassion rather than temtation to use them for my own gratification. It is simply a miracle.

It has been nine months of not just victory over that stronghold but over all the other "little" sins of life that grab at me, like they do all of us. It has literally been like a different life for me, and it is simply enjoying the fruits of the new covenant, where God said he would cause us to will and to do of His good pleasure.


Now, does a force come down and take my hand off my mouse to not search out porn? Absolutely not. Have I lost my free will? Nope. He does not make us robots. But what He does do as we grab hold of His promises and believe all that He offers is change us from the inside out, by abiding in him, with sin never rearing its ugly head to yank us out of fellowship and into the mire and sinking sand where satan can constantly accuse us.


The new covenant does not work like to law. The driving force for obeying the old covenant was on OUR shoulders. The law attempts to change us by cleaning us up on the outside in, but if the heart is still impure, it cannot be cleansed from the outside in.


The new covenant, however, is different, The weight of obedience under the new covenant is on HIS shoulders. Self control, a necessity under the old, is amazingly under the new a fruit of simply abiding in Him! As Andrew Murray wrote, "God is willing to take full responsibility for a life totally yielded to Him"

Under this glorious new covenant, , it works by us partaking of the the divine nature of our Father, as we step out in faith and believe His glorious promises. Simply put, God means every word He utters to us. If God said he will always cause us to triumph in Christ jesus, He meant it. If He says that with every temptation, He will make a way of escape, then guess what he meant? Yet if we are still in the flesh, and choose to ignore the escape hatch, what good is it to us as opposed to the old covenant? There would be NO advantage. But God be praised that when we reckon ourselves dead to sin, dead to our flesh and alive to Him, He quickens us and as new creatures, we do not WANT to sin. Why? He changes our heart on the matter. Our victories are not short lived ones, three steps forward-two steps back. Our victories are not white knuckle victories but flow like living water out of Gods own throne. There is a glorious easy yoke waiting for all who are tired of failing their master, if they, with contrite hearts hungry for more of Him, simply believe He is that good to give us the victory we have worrn ourselves out trying to earn.


To many who may be opposed to my message of by faith reckoning themselves dead to sin, and alive to God, this confession will give them plenty of ammunition to throw at me. But Jesse, when you point blank asked me, what was I to do? Shall I rob God of the glory by saving my reputation? Nope, no can do. Outside of Christ, like Paul, I am the chief of sinners, I really am. God, praise God, I am no longer that weak, bound, unhappy son fo God who longed inside for freedom but could not find the secret. I am an overcomer, finally, after 59 years of life and38 years of serving Him. I am a new creaturw and old things ar passed away. I am not dying to sin a little more every day. I am DEAD to it and it is not something I have "acheived", but simply a gift waiting for all Hos children who would be so blod as to simply ask Him for it and believe when they do, that He gives it.

Why did he choose me to show this to? Simply because I needed it and knew it, knew that in my flesh dwelt no good thing.


Thank you God for your victory, and I pray for all who read my words, who hate the fact that there is a chain around their ankle, no matter how long the chain is and what type of sin it is tied to, for all need this walk and all are qualified to recieve it, if they will simply break before their heavenly Father, confess that their sin nature is unreformable and ask Him for the new man that is already created in righteousness and true holiness.

"Nothing profits but a new creature."

I hope this helps you see what I am referring to and as well, why I spend such an inordinate amount of time sharing again and again on this topic. Properly understood, this secret will revolutionize the individual hearer's walk and as well, ignite the church into real revival. If the sleeping giant called the church ever wakes up to the goodness of God and casts off its unbelief like a dirty rag, the whole earth will again be turned upside down, and to that end I labor, reputation destroyed but heart set free.

[ByFaithIC]

Bruce, Thank you so much for sharing this testimony with us. It is a breath of fresh air for me, as I am currently going through a certain battle. I get so frustrated that I never hear this kind of testimony. I often hear testimonies of how people first came to Christ but very rarely do we hear the on-going deliverance testimonies...usually because Christian's are too busy trying to appear perfect in Christ to reveal that they have/had secret sins. There is currently a book on the market named Secret Confession's of Good Christian Boy. There is also one titled the same for christian girls. I have the female versions. They are about how Christian's hide these secret's because they are scared of judgement from other Christian's and also think that thy are hiding their secret's from God as they try to deal with their problems on their own. It is a terrible problem among Christian to hide instead of seek help. I reccommend the man book for you..it's great to hear deliverence testimonies!

Anyway, Maybe you can help me....About a year ago, I received a word from God while I was sitting quietly one morning after Bible study. Plain as day I heard clearly in my thought's "Isaiah 58:6" I have never had a word come to me like this before so I was a little shock that a verse would pop into my thought's just as if someone had whispered it to me. I had no idea what the verse was so I opened my bible back up and this is what I read...
Isaiah 58:6 (NKJV)
6 "Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke?

I honestly could not think what to do with this. I had no doubt that the Holy Spirit was convicting me of something...

So my question to you is..Based on that verse, are these changes going to be made in me or am I to change myself?
Thank You for your help.

Originally Posted by ByFaithIC

Bruce, Thank you so much for sharing this testimony with us. It is a breath of fresh air for me, as I am currently going through a certain battle. I get so frustrated that I never hear this kind of testimony. I often hear testimonies of how people first came to Christ but very rarely do we hear the on-going deliverance testimonies...usually because Christian's are too busy trying to appear perfect in Christ to reveal that they have/had secret sins. There is currently a book on the market named Secret Confession's of Good Christian Boy. There is also one titled the same for christian girls. I have the female versions. They are about how Christian's hide these secret's because they are scared of judgement from other Christian's and also think that thy are hiding their secret's from God as they try to deal with their problems on their own. It is a terrible problem among Christian to hide instead of seek help. I reccommend the man book for you..it's great to hear deliverence testimonies!

Anyway, Maybe you can help me....About a year ago, I received a word from God while I was sitting quietly one morning after Bible study. Plain as day I heard clearly in my thought's "Isaiah 58:6" I have never had a word come to me like this before so I was a little shock that a verse would pop into my thought's just as if someone had whispered it to me. I had no idea what the verse was so I opened my bible back up and this is what I read...
Isaiah 58:6 (NKJV)
6 "Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke?

I honestly could not think what to do with this. I had no doubt that the Holy Spirit was convicting me of something...

So my question to you is..Based on that verse, are these changes going to be made in me or am I to change myself?
Thank You for your help.

Dear ByFaith, you are right, and I fear secret sins are far more prevelant than we know in the church, for you are correct again, we have to keep up a facade of goodness and victory so as not to rock the boat and as well, not be judged by others as weak. But it was when I finally did not care who thought me weak, because in truth I WAS weak, that I humbly broke before God, hoping beyond hope that there was real deliverance for me.

Even more sad though to me are those who do not have addictions and secret sins...they are simply "good" people still in the flesh, able to keep up the appearance of righteousness, content to walk the path of religious Christianity, no threat to satan and content to walk with sin still in them but "under control", for "at least we are not as bad as such and such".

In Gods view, sin is sin. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags. Yet, how hard it is for us to comprehend that statement. Yet did not jesus speak of the "healthy" not needing a physician? We know of course He was not teaching that some simply can get to heaven by being good. What He was teaching however was that until we see our great need and see Him alone as our great physician, we will walk on in blindness.

As to your question, that entire chapter is Isaiah is heaven's view of our having turned Christianity into a religion instead of setting men and women free as Christ desires. God is simply not impressed with our religious activities, no matter how they appear outwardly, if they are not fueled by our new creation. Why? becasue they make a mockery of the work of the Holy Spirit needed in each heart to finally turn us into likenesses of God's own Son.

The flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God...good flesh or bad flesh like mine was. God does not want religious activities that make us look righteous, He wants it real or not at all. That is why He said to the Laodecian church "I would that you were hot or cold, but instead you are just lukewarm." God's will for His bride is that she be without spot or wrinkle, showing others bound by satan how to be without spot or wrinkle as well, by faith in His exceeding great and precious promises. Can he really mean he would rather us back in the world rather than continuing in our charade of Christian activities where we gather to clang our leg chains together singing "How Great Thou Aart" while we all are still in bondage. No more. Transparency is called for by all. The question is...who is desperate enough to obey, willing to forsake their earthly reputation for real deliverance and the ability to experience "free indeed'??

Your question is a great one. Was He convicting you? I do not know. God and you alone know your heart. But I will promise you this... He was teaching you, showing you what real Christianity is to be. God is not impressed with our worship, our prayers, our ministries, our doctrines all neat and orderly and lining up exactyl with the word IF in them, we are content with sin still in our lives. Why? Becasue anyone we convert is taught that our level of Christianity is the right level, and they too end up content with satan still having his chain around their legs.

Our purpose as His church is not to grow into a big church, nor have a "successful" ministry, well spoken of by all. Our purpose is to grow up into Him in all things and then do what He did on the earth, set people free from the grasp of the wicked one physically, emotionally, spiritually. God is speaking to you, and whether or not you know it yet, you are blessed.

Those who struggle with sins,especially big ones, are especially blessed, even though we often curse them and their effects on our lives. Why are we blessed? because we know we need a miracle, a crutch, a new life, if we are ever to walk as God intends. I hope this insight helps a bit in your search.

I will always have to finish up though in pointing out the way out of our mess. Once we are broken and all self confidance shot full of holes, it is at that point we are asked to do something bold and brazen and simply amazing- reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God. That word "reckon" mans to deposit it into our bank account with God. Just as when we deposit a check into our earthly account, often times there may be a slight delay until it "clears" and we can use the money. But from the time it is deposited, it IS ours. That is how faith works with God.

Simply put, today can be our day of "reckoning". Not one more thing needs to happen to ask for it. We are perfectly prepared to receive it if we are His child, and can never be more ready than we are today, if we see our great need and His great supply!

We are asked to, by faith, put off our old man and accept the new creature God has made for us. We literally put on the Lord as our clothing. He becomes our wedding garment. Even if our faith is small, and weak, God moves heaven and earth to help us walk uprightly and free.

We are told by God that :

"His eyes search to and fro across the whole earth, seeking those on whose behalf He can show Himself strong."

If we could honestly see how willing God is to give us the kingdom, we would trample one another in our efforts to be first in line. But until we see the depths of our weaknesses, we cannot look for our saviour to be strong for us, for he will share the glory with none, for He alone is worthy. If there is anything else I can do to assist you, please feel free to send me a PM. I will be more than glad to do whatever I can.

Bruce,
I want to say that this is not about reputation; reputation is about pride. I have more respect for someone who can be honest enough and real enough to share what they have struggled with; it actually takes courage. It does a couple of things Bruce that are really quite positive though, it reinforces your freedom, let's others know there is an answer and also allows others to know that you are someone who may understand their need. To me this is some pretty important information. It sounds to me what God has done is quite powerful and the testimony alone has alot of merit and speaks for itself. This is the kind of thing which does touch the heart of others. I say Praise God for what he has done and will continue to do!

Originally Posted by MMari

Bruce,
I want to say that this is not about reputation; reputation is about pride. I have more respect for someone who can be honest enough and real enough to share what they have struggled with; it actually takes courage. It does a couple of things Bruce that are really quite positive though, it reinforces your freedom, let's others know there is an answer and also allows others to know that you are someone who may understand their need. To me this is some pretty important information. It sounds to me what God has done is quite powerful and the testimony alone has alot of merit and speaks for itself. This is the kind of thing which does touch the heart of others. I say Praise God for what he has done and will continue to do!

And surely, Marilyn, I praise God with you. God is able. The question is simply "Will we cast off our unbelief and release Him to do what He longs to do for us?" Thank you for your encouragement.

[winsome]

Hi Bruce,

While I have been away I have been pondering on sin (following on from your thread about whether it is possible to stop sinning). I’d like to share some thoughts and see what you and others think.

I’ll start with Rom 6:12-23. It seems to me that Paul uses the word sin here (& elsewhere) in two ways. The first one is as a verb, we sin – i.e. we commit acts of sin. The other way is as a noun – i.e sin is an entity, a thing. We see this latter use in Gen 4:7 when God says to Cain:
sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master.

We see the same idea in 1Pet 5:8
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour.

If we change Rom 6:12-23 to reflect this and change the verb to “commit sinful acts” and the noun to “the devil” or “Satan” then you can see that this is all about breaking the power of Satan over us; stopping being slaves of Satan and becoming slave of God. However this does not mean that we will immediately stop committing sinful acts. It is just the necessary first step. We are still spiritually weak and the desires of the flesh strong. We still have to gain spiritual muscles to overcome our desires.

Let me make an analogy. Suppose we are laid low for a long time by a virulent virus. Our body is wasted away and our muscles very weak. The first thing we need to do to recover is destroy the power of the virus over us. But when that is done we are still too weak to get up. We need to eat the right food and have physiotherapy to build up of body and muscles.

Now translate that idea into the spiritual world. After Satan is overpowered we still have to build up our spirit with the right spiritual food and strengthen our spiritual muscles with fasting and prayer before our spirit and will is strong enough to overcome our bodily cravings.

Now if we have already done this whilst we were still under Satan’s power then when his power is broken we will already be much stronger and ready to resist out bodies desires. The analogy is that if we had been eating well and receiving physiotherapy when the virus was attacking our bodies, then our bodies would be in better shape to walk when the virus was overpowered.

So your fasting and prayer was not a waste of time, but it meant that when you did break Satan’s power by fully putting yourself under God, then you were already strong enough to master your desires.

I think that breaking Satan’s power, becoming slaves of righteousness is only the first, but vital, step in stopping sinning.

That is not to say that we can do it on our own. We still need God’s grace and power to do this. And perhaps sometimes God provides a miraculous cure that stems the cravings. When a drug addict comes off drugs with prayer and support he still has to fight the cravings. But sometimes God just cures him instantly and all cravings just go. But I don’t think that is the usual way.


steve

Originally Posted by winsome

Hi Bruce,

While I have been away I have been pondering on sin (following on from your thread about whether it is possible to stop sinning). I’d like to share some thoughts and see what you and others think.

I’ll start with Rom 6:12-23. It seems to me that Paul uses the word sin here (& elsewhere) in two ways. The first one is as a verb, we sin – i.e. we commit acts of sin. The other way is as a noun – i.e sin is an entity, a thing. We see this latter use in Gen 4:7 when God says to Cain:
sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master.

We see the same idea in 1Pet 5:8
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour.

If we change Rom 6:12-23 to reflect this and change the verb to “commit sinful acts” and the noun to “the devil” or “Satan” then you can see that this is all about breaking the power of Satan over us; stopping being slaves of Satan and becoming slave of God. However this does not mean that we will immediately stop committing sinful acts. It is just the necessary first step. We are still spiritually weak and the desires of the flesh strong. We still have to gain spiritual muscles to overcome our desires.

Let me make an analogy. Suppose we are laid low for a long time by a virulent virus. Our body is wasted away and our muscles very weak. The first thing we need to do to recover is destroy the power of the virus over us. But when that is done we are still too weak to get up. We need to eat the right food and have physiotherapy to build up of body and muscles.

Now translate that idea into the spiritual world. After Satan is overpowered we still have to build up our spirit with the right spiritual food and strengthen our spiritual muscles with fasting and prayer before our spirit and will is strong enough to overcome our bodily cravings.

Now if we have already done this whilst we were still under Satan’s power then when his power is broken we will already be much stronger and ready to resist out bodies desires. The analogy is that if we had been eating well and receiving physiotherapy when the virus was attacking our bodies, then our bodies would be in better shape to walk when the virus was overpowered.

So your fasting and prayer was not a waste of time, but it meant that when you did break Satan’s power by fully putting yourself under God, then you were already strong enough to master your desires.

I think that breaking Satan’s power, becoming slaves of righteousness is only the first, but vital, step in stopping sinning.

That is not to say that we can do it on our own. We still need God’s grace and power to do this. And perhaps sometimes God provides a miraculous cure that stems the cravings. When a drug addict comes off drugs with prayer and support he still has to fight the cravings. But sometimes God just cures him instantly and all cravings just go. But I don’t think that is the usual way.


steve

Excellent questions Steve and good points. Would you mind if I prayed about how to answer? I do not want to ever mislead oe assume I "have it down". I feel like a kindergardener to be honest with you. I will get back to you soon. BY the way, did not know if you watched this but if not...do. This was a 7 and a half minute sermon by Shadrack Mechak Lockridge, pastor of an african american babtist church in San Diego. He died in 2000. GREAT sermon. It will bless you if you watch it all, trust me.

YouTube - That's My King! Do You Know Him?

Well there you go, Bruce... so far 100% of us have not tossed you overboard.

Perhaps we're all just like you... fighting our own "secret sins." How about not "perhaps..." how about "we are."

And I agree with what winsome is saying, but I'm going to start a new post about it. It's high time we all come to an understanding of each other about the faith vs. works issue. I think there have been some major misunderstandings perpetuated throughout all of Christianity (as to how we understand each other), and what better place to pull open the shades and let some true light in on the subject than in this forum setting.

Thanks for helping me see what I could not see before... that we understand the same thing.

Originally Posted by quietude

Well there you go, Bruce... so far 100% of us have not tossed you overboard.

Perhaps we're all just like you... fighting our own "secret sins." How about not "perhaps..." how about "we are."

And I agree with what winsome is saying, but I'm going to start a new post about it. It's high time we all come to an understanding of each other about the faith vs. works issue. I think there have been some major misunderstandings perpetuated throughout all of Christianity (as to how we understand each other), and what better place to pull open the shades and let some true light in on the subject than in this forum setting.

Thanks for helping me see what I could not see before... that we understand the same thing.

So much for my communication skills! LOL

[Soulheart3]

The main thing I am saddened by Bruce is that every church I have ever attended for any length of time has never stated how to get rid habitual sin that hangs on after salvation through asking for help from the Lord. Its always been "you must turn away from sin" in a do it in your own power type faith. Faith is what pleases the Lord, the jews pretty much showed that adherance to godliness thru human effort fails all of the time. Just another area where the modern day churches are failing.