I think it is time we really got down to the heart of the matter. So here is a question I would like each of you to answer in your own heart.

Were the promises of God meant to actually work, to REALLY work in our daily walk or are they simply nice "Christian" platitudes to inscribe on plaques for sale in Christian bookstores but in truth a big, sick joke by our Lord? What promises of God, you ask?

There are many, but here are a few:

God promises that with EVERY temptation, He will make a way of escape, that we will be able to bear it and that our victory remain uninterrupted.

God promises that we will be more than conquerors thru Him that loved us.

God promises that sin shall not have dominion over us.

God promises that we will really be made "free indeed".

God promises that He will CAUSE us to walk in His statutes, to will AND to do of His good pleasure, and that obedience, a requirement of the old covenant, will be a blessing in the new.

God promises that self control will be a fruit of the spirit in our new covenant, not a requirement to become holy under the old covenant, the law of commandments.

God promised that we, our flesh, is dead, and that our life is hid with Christ in God.

God promises that we are not in the flesh, warring after the flesh, but that we are in the spirit, the new man who is created in righteousness and true holiness.

God promised that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty thru God to the pulling down of strongholds.

God promises that our EVERY thought will be brought into subjection to the Lordship of Christ.

God promises that whatsoever we ask in His name, that WILL he do, that the Father might be glorified in the Son.

God promises that satan will be under our feet and that the world, the flesh and the devil will be defeated foes in our life.

God promises that we will find total safety in the name of the Lord.

God promises that we will mount up with wings as eagles, and we shall run and not be weary and we shall walk and not faint.

God promises that old things ARE passed away and that all things have become new.

God promises us peace......His peace.

God promises that we will be fruitful, abounding in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, meekness and of course, the previously mentioned self-control.

If these amazing promises work in your life, I would love to hear from you on this post. If they are not, I would still appreciate your thoughts and your reasoning as to why, because we are told that it is by our faith in these exceeding great and precious promises, that we are partakers of the divine nature.

If the promises are real and Jesus meant them, then we have several big problems. What are they?

Well, for starters, no one will be partakers of the divine nature unless the promises are believed.

Secondly, our unbelief is not a "weakness" that can be confessed and forgiven. The word calls it "an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God."

Thirdly, we have rebuilt that which He destroyed, the law, and as a result, our flesh is still alive and kicking.

Fourthly, we, all of us, have become the very church in the last days that has a form of Godliness, but denies the power thereof, both in our lack of holiness and in our testimonies.

I listen to saints say "We are only human." . I hear Christians confess and put on the fronts of T-shirts "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven". That is our testimony God's word says in revelation "And they overcame Him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of THEIR testimony. We are proud of the very thing we should be weeping in shame over.

Just forgiven? That is it? That is the full capabilities of the glorious gospel of the God of the Universe to clean us up and change us into the image of His Son after rescuing us out of the mouth of the devil?

The church, and I mean all of us, have testified to the world that basically, Jesus is a liar and that His promises are really only nice platitudes. We simply do not believe God can keep us walking free from sin.

No denomination can claim that they are exempt from our sad state. Neither can the lone rangers who belong to none. All the virgins are sleeping and we need to remember only half of the virgins wake up and make it into the wedding feast. All we really willing to play the odds that we are the 50% that make it in and that we have no reason to fear? Those are terrible odds for gambling our eternal souls, friends.

There is a real, working answer to our eternal life threatening dilemma as to why the gospel as we preach it is not working, but until we are prepared to find that solution at ALL costs, like the sinner in the temple was, the answer will elude us.

"YOu will seek me and you will find me, when you seek me with your WHOLE heart."

[Amadeus]

The promises work Bruce! The problem is never that God comes up short. The problem is that we do! Like Peter who was quick to act and quick to speak, we move right along until we get distracted by our own 'old man' or satan, our adversary.

Peter walked on the water, until he focused on something else. Peter trusted in Jesus, until things seemed to be getting out of hand!

Our doubt and unbelief hinders us still. The father in the following verses admitted his limitation and asked the right one for help!

"Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him." Mark 9:23-25

Originally Posted by Amadeus

The promises work Bruce! The problem is never that God comes up short. The problem is that we do! Like Peter who was quick to act and quick to speak, we move right along until we get distracted by our own 'old man' or satan, our adversary.

Peter walked on the water, until he focused on something else. Peter trusted in Jesus, until things seemed to be getting out of hand!

Our doubt and unbelief hinders us still. The father in the following verses admitted his limitation and asked the right one for help!

"Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him." Mark 9:23-25

But my dear friend Amadeus, do you not see that that was the problem with the old covenant? No one could do it! If, in the "new and improved" covenant, the results are the same, what good was the improvement? Are you telling me that Christ cannot cause us to obey as He promised? If we are not finding it to be true in our experience, then it behooves us to find out why. If we are content to walk on in our old man, knowing that our old man will never submit to the will of God, and that we have been given instructions on what to do with him, and refuse to do it, then we are basically calling our Father a liar, and exposing in our hearts what we really think of unbelief...just another weakness, because after all ,we are "only human."

Amadeus, unbelief is not a weakness. It may have been prior to pentecost, but we do not have that excuse anymore. God has given us His Spirit that we are promised will lead us into all truth. Unbelief is now exposed for what it is. It is evil. It is a sin that we often confess, like the father you talked about, but we never seem to repent of, turn our backs on and walk in faith instead. So it remains, and will accuse us on the last day.

Thank God He knoew our weakness, what was in the heart of man and has given us a new covenant, so that our obedience would be secured.

"..and I will cause them to walk in my statutes. I shall yet be inquired of by the House of Israel to do it for them."

"...for it is God that worketh in you, both to will and to do of Hos good pleasure."

If we are still walking in disobedience, i content we are still walking in the old one, not the new, for the new has guarantee that it will work for us.

Yes, you are right Amadeus, the promises do work! But they are supposed to work IN us, for us, so that our old nature that does not bow the knee to God and wants to live on in rebellion to the will of God is dealt a death ****. We are not instructed to tie up our flesh and lock him in a closet. We are to reckon him DEAD. Until we face that and do something about it, nothing will change. The question is for all of us, are we willing to lose our life to gain His?

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by BruceG

But my dear friend Amadeus, do you not see that that was the problem with the old covenant? No one could do it!

Is God not fair in His judgments?

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

If we are given more now than were any under the old covenant then is not more required of us? As to your statement that "no one could do it" the following verse seems to indicate that at least three did:

"Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD." Ezek 14:14

If, in the "new and improved" covenant, the results are the same, what good was the improvement? Are you telling me that Christ cannot cause us to obey as He promised? If we are not finding it to be true in our experience, then it behooves us to find out why. If we are content to walk on in our old man, knowing that our old man will never submit to the will of God, and that we have been given instructions on what to do with him, and refuse to do it, then we are basically calling our Father a liar, and exposing in our hearts what we really think of unbelief...just another weakness, because after all ,we are "only human."

Man is the same now as he ever was! We may be given more now, but for the most part we reject what God has given us. Even after having received the gift of the Holy Ghost, we want to keep hold of the reins ourselves. This is why we fail. We must go to where God wants us to go, or we will fail whether it is to the priest under the old covenant or to Jesus under the new. We must want to be and strive to be obedient and sometimes, [and probably always], we must ask for God's help. That was true in the OT as well as it is in the NT.

"And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore.

And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head." I Sam 1:10-11

"Then Eli answered and said, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him." I Sam 1:17

Amadeus, unbelief is not a weakness. It may have been prior to pentecost, but we do not have that excuse anymore. God has given us His Spirit that we are promised will lead us into all truth. Unbelief is now exposed for what it is. It is evil. It is a sin that we often confess, like the father you talked about, but we never seem to repent of, turn our backs on and walk in faith instead. So it remains, and will accuse us on the last day.

Yes, we have received His Spirit, but our unbelief in the ability of that Spirit to know and to do the will of God always quenches the Spirit in us.

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

Instead of learning to listen to the Spirit and to follow it, we continue on our own ways planning our own course to get into His kingdom. This is the way that those who built the tower of Babel thought to get to heaven. It did not work then and it will not work now.

The following advice of Jesus should not be applied only when we are taken before the magistrates, but at all times:

"And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say." Luke 12:11-12

Our studies are necessary in obedience to God, but it is not our plans made as a result of our studies that will get us to where we need to be heading, but rather our surrender to that Holy Ghost which has been placed within us for that purpose.

Thank God He knoew our weakness, what was in the heart of man and has given us a new covenant, so that our obedience would be secured.

Jesus "learned obedience":

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:8-9

He learned "by the things which he suffered"! Is less required of us?

"But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you." I Peter 5:10

Jesus learned obedience "by the things which he suffered".

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

"..and I will cause them to walk in my statutes. I shall yet be inquired of by the House of Israel to do it for them."

"...for it is God that worketh in you, both to will and to do of Hos good pleasure."

God is not causing us to walk in His statutes or working in us when we are quenching His Spirit!

If we are still walking in disobedience, i content we are still walking in the old one, not the new, for the new has guarantee that it will work for us.

The guarantee is that it will work, but He has never removed our control from us. We must surrender that control to Him not once, but continuously. We must not be saved once, but each time that we are tempted. Was Jesus only tempted once? Did Jesus only have to fight the battle against temptations of the flesh only once? He will fight the battles for us as many times as we ask Him...

"And he said, Take the arrows. And he took them. And he said unto the king of Israel, Smite upon the ground. And he smote thrice, and stayed.

And the man of God was wroth with him, and said, Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times; then hadst thou smitten Syria till thou hadst consumed it: whereas now thou shalt smite Syria but thrice." II Kings 13:18-19

Methinks that we have more than even 5 or 6 battles still before us!

Yes, you are right Amadeus, the promises do work! But they are supposed to work IN us, for us, so that our old nature that does not bow the knee to God and wants to live on in rebellion to the will of God is dealt a death ****. We are not instructed to tie up our flesh and lock him in a closet. We are to reckon him DEAD. Until we face that and do something about it, nothing will change. The question is for all of us, are we willing to lose our life to gain His?

Jesus killed His temptations in His flesh that opposed God's will the last time with His three requests in the garden of Gethsemene. Our beasts of temptations must also be killed by Him in us. Only when the 'old man' is finally and completely dead in us are the battles over. When the battles are all won then we will no longer be tempted to sin.

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table" Prov 9:1-2

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Is God not fair in His judgments?

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

If we are given more now than were any under the old covenant then is not more required of us? As to your statement that "no one could do it" the following verse seems to indicate that at least three did:

"Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD." Ezek 14:14



Man is the same now as he ever was! We may be given more now, but for the most part we reject what God has given us. Even after having received the gift of the Holy Ghost, we want to keep hold of the reins ourselves. This is why we fail. We must go to where God wants us to go, or we will fail whether it is to the priest under the old covenant or to Jesus under the new. We must want to be and strive to be obedient and sometimes, [and probably always], we must ask for God's help. That was true in the OT as well as it is in the NT.

"And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore.

And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head." I Sam 1:10-11

"Then Eli answered and said, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him." I Sam 1:17



Yes, we have received His Spirit, but our unbelief in the ability of that Spirit to know and to do the will of God always quenches the Spirit in us.

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

Instead of learning to listen to the Spirit and to follow it, we continue on our own ways planning our own course to get into His kingdom. This is the way that those who built the tower of Babel thought to get to heaven. It did not work then and it will not work now.

The following advice of Jesus should not be applied only when we are taken before the magistrates, but at all times:

"And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say." Luke 12:11-12

Our studies are necessary in obedience to God, but it is not our plans made as a result of our studies that will get us to where we need to be heading, but rather our surrender to that Holy Ghost which has been placed within us for that purpose.



Jesus "learned obedience":

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:8-9

He learned "by the things which he suffered"! Is less required of us?

"But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you." I Peter 5:10

Jesus learned obedience "by the things which he suffered".

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20



God is not causing us to walk in His statutes or working in us when we are quenching His Spirit!



The guarantee is that it will work, but He has never removed our control from us. We must surrender that control to Him not once, but continuously. We must not be saved once, but each time that we are tempted. Was Jesus only tempted once? Did Jesus only have to fight the battle against temptations of the flesh only once? He will fight the battles for us as many times as we ask Him...

"And he said, Take the arrows. And he took them. And he said unto the king of Israel, Smite upon the ground. And he smote thrice, and stayed.

And the man of God was wroth with him, and said, Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times; then hadst thou smitten Syria till thou hadst consumed it: whereas now thou shalt smite Syria but thrice." II Kings 13:18-19

Methinks that we have more than even 5 or 6 battles still before us!




Jesus killed His temptations in His flesh that opposed God's will the last time with His three requests in the garden of Gethsemene. Our beasts of temptations must also be killed by Him in us. Only when the 'old man' is finally and completely dead in us are the battles over. When the battles are all won then we will no longer be tempted to sin.

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table" Prov 9:1-2

Amadeus, my friend now dear to me, do you not see? God says:

For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God. To stay a day longer in unbelief is earning your right to believe. You cannot. Right now, to know that one is in the flesh and remain there is simply rebellion and the flesh wanting to live on one more day. I know where you are. i was there for 21 year. I was the ultimate rebel. But God can break us, in love, but still break us, till our heart is ready to receive from Him.

Paul spoke nothing of this gradual dying you speak of. His "I die daily" was not concerning dying to self but the dangers he faced daily in his ministry to get people to reckon themselves as DEAD! He said NOW, TODAY, reckon yourself as DEAD, not dying. It is God's work to make it real and effective, but it is your job to yield speak out in faith "Lord, I believe, help thou my unbelief. God will honor evenb faith like that. Without that initial step, our mouthes testifying that we are dead to sin and alive to righteousness, nothing will ever transpire except more pain and more sin, until we finally relent and agree with God. Sadly, we are those God spoke of in the last days that have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. Can God do for you what you cannot? Can He not make you holy and cause you to will and to do of Hos good pleasure? Of course He can.

You wrote: We must surrender that control to Him not once, but continuously. We must not be saved once, but each time that we are tempted.

No, my dear brother in Christ. No. Paul said that we, like Christ, are to die once to sin and that again, like Christ was raised to newness of life, so should we be.

Your way simply stretches out death for your entire life and you never live in true victory. Satan is lying to you and I say that because I love you and care for you. May I ask you. Has your method worked for you? Are you free indeed? Why would you think, if it has not worked for years, that all of a sudden it will.

God does not want us dying. He wants us dead so we can live, and reign in THIS life. I pray you finally see that you will be in a never ending "I am almost there" rather than having NOW faith. Paul said to the Corinthians:

And such WERE some of you. But you are washed. You are sanctified. You are justified in the name of the Lord.

Without a stand of faith, a line drawn in the sand for satan and all the angels in Heaven to see, we have no faith at all, but only hope that someday we will have faith. That day will never come if it is not NOW faith.

For he that cometh to God must believe that He IS and that he IS a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Faith that works is present tense, and by design must be.

Amadeus, I so apologize for speaking hard words to you. The Lord knows my heart. You have truly become dear to my heart. I so wish I could convey this better to you and rip off the blinders that keep you and all from understanding the truth of the way of faith alone. But my God is able to do what I cannot and to Him I cry out for all that truly want freedom and do not know how. I love you and you are dear to me. Please do not think badly of me.

God, move hearts.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by BruceG

Amadeus, my friend now dear to me, do you not see? God says:

For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God. To stay a day longer in unbelief is earning your right to believe. You cannot. Right now, to know that one is in the flesh and remain there is simply rebellion and the flesh wanting to live on one more day. I know where you are. i was there for 21 year. I was the ultimate rebel. But God can break us, in love, but still break us, till our heart is ready to receive from Him.

Paul spoke nothing of this gradual dying you speak of. His "I die daily" was not concerning dying to self but the dangers he faced daily in his ministry to get people to reckon themselves as DEAD! He said NOW, TODAY, reckon yourself as DEAD, not dying. It is God's work to make it real and effective, but it is your job to yield speak out in faith "Lord, I believe, help thou my unbelief. God will honor evenb faith like that. Without that initial step, our mouthes testifying that we are dead to sin and alive to righteousness, nothing will ever transpire except more pain and more sin, until we finally relent and agree with God. Sadly, we are those God spoke of in the last days that have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. Can God do for you what you cannot? Can He not make you holy and cause you to will and to do of Hos good pleasure? Of course He can.

You wrote: We must surrender that control to Him not once, but continuously. We must not be saved once, but each time that we are tempted.

No, my dear brother in Christ. No. Paul said that we, like Christ, are to die once to sin and that again, like Christ was raised to newness of life, so should we be.

Your way simply stretches out death for your entire life and you never live in true victory. Satan is lying to you and I say that because I love you and care for you. May I ask you. Has your method worked for you? Are you free indeed? Why would you think, if it has not worked for years, that all of a sudden it will.

God does not want us dying. He wants us dead so we can live, and reign in THIS life. I pray you finally see that you will be in a never ending "I am almost there" rather than having NOW faith. Paul said to the Corinthians:

And such WERE some of you. But you are washed. You are sanctified. You are justified in the name of the Lord.

Without a stand of faith, a line drawn in the sand for satan and all the angels in Heaven to see, we have no faith at all, but only hope that someday we will have faith. That day will never come if it is not NOW faith.

For he that cometh to God must believe that He IS and that he IS a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Faith that works is present tense, and by design must be.

Amadeus, I so apologize for speaking hard words to you. The Lord knows my heart. You have truly become dear to my heart. I so wish I could convey this better to you and rip off the blinders that keep you and all from understanding the truth of the way of faith alone. But my God is able to do what I cannot and to Him I cry out for all that truly want freedom and do not know how. I love you and you are dear to me. Please do not think badly of me.

God, move hearts.

All I can do here Bruce is explain what I believe!

How long does it take to kill the 'old man'?

Our natural flesh is dying continually from the day of our natural birth to the day of our natural death. In the normal pattern, the old cells wear out and are replaced by new cells. In the beginning, the new cells will outnumber the old and the body grow bigger and stronger. At some point in natural life we will reach a peak and aging will begin to show as the new cells are unable to keep up with the death of the old and apparently the ability to replicate themselves becomes less efficient. Assuming nothing unusual occurs we may live 70 years or so.

In the old man is the ability to sin. In the new man there is no sin, but if not properly nourished the new man like the old man will not grow. Lack of nourishment in our old man will result in him eventually starving to death. He needs meat and potatoes and water. The new man needs the Word and Spirit of God.

We can prolong the length of life of the old man by taking good care it him, but eventually under even the best of conditions he will die.

The new man if properly nourished will never die. If not properly nourished or not nourished at all eventually the person will become reprobate. This means that even the tiny spark that initially favors God is gone. Every man that can be saved has that tiny spark which allows him to be drawn to God in the first place. Lots of people are effectively zombies because they have never fed the tiny spark. Receiving the Holy Ghost should increase the spark to a regular bonfire. A reprobate person would be already completely dead spiritually, a total zombie.

Most of us as Christians, depending on our walk, are a mixture of the two, the old man and the new man. John the Baptist gave us the correct formula:

"He [the new man or Jesus in us] must increase, but I [the old man] must decrease." John 3:30

It is not the physical flesh that must decrease. That will die eventually in any case, but what must die is the beasts in us which when they have the dominion will lead to sin repeatedly. The following verse describes our beasts.

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

The "world" is what we are of... We are of the dust of the earth, except for the glimmer of hope left to us. That glimmer [tiny spark] may become a bonfire when we meet Jesus. As our faith is increased [Luke 17:5 & Rom 1:17] the bonfire will also grow bigger and the strength of the old man to lead us into sin will diminish.

As the end of faith is attained in some areas it becomes knowledge [not simply believed,but known]. When all faith has ended (Heb 12:2, I Pet 1:9) [become knowledge] then we will no longer see him through a "glass darkly", but "face to face".

In answer to your questions: "Has your method worked for you? Are you free indeed?"

It is working! I am closer than when I first believed.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" Eph 4:11-13

Brother, we are being perfected if we are allowing ourselves to be perfected. This is the work of the ministry: the "perfecting of the saints".

When we have all of the "knowledge" then there will be no further need for faith in us and the old man's ways [I John 2:16] will be completely dead. But... we can only get to that kind of knowledge by a faith which is continually being increased in us.

Time for sleep but one comment on a statement made. You asked:

How long does it take to kill the 'old man'?

In my understanding, it takes as long as necessary for us to run totally out of hope in fulfilling the commandments of Jesus by our self effort, effort that is not fueled by trust in "Christ in us".

When we finally break before Him and tell Him we have no strength to obey with pure motives and a pure heart, and cry out for a miracle in us, that is our "old man funeral day". I pray those listening to my words of good news get it faster than I did. It took me 37 years, sad to say. I am not proud of that fact, nor proud of anything in my walk. But I was proud, legalistic and full of myself. NOT a good combination. My old man died a slow and painful death. Arrogance dies hard, LOL. But in God's plan, boasting is excluded. Until my pride hit zero, my flesh lives on.

What I will say is this as truth. You can never kill the flesh off a little bit at a time. It will not happen. When our last ditch efforts to slay the beast in us fail, and we bow before God and confess with tears and brokenness our utter inabilities to please Him in the manner He demands, with pure hearts and motives, do you know how He will respond? He will look us gently in the eye and say "I know. I have known all along. But you did not. Well done thou good and faithful servant."

Whatttt? He will be pleased with us for our disobedient hearts? No, but he will be pleased with our brokenness for having them, for that is the last requirement in order for us to truly believe fully that it must be His work. I will tell you this Amadeus, I fought several addictive sins both large and small for 37 years unsuccessfully and frankly I tried harder than most. But when I finally broke and heard those words of God, the love of God swept into my dry wineskin of a heart and it became like the Garden of Eden, and sins that had been my vanquisher for decades died in one day. That was eight months ago. I have not been the same since. God now has my heart, 100%, where before to will was present with me, but how to perform I found not. The battle raged no more. Praise God.

I pray this helps. God in His love will do whatever is needed to bring us to our knees, because that is a prerequisite to truly believe in His work. It is then that we can truly reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin and alive unto Him . This is the mystery of coming lower to get higher.

"A broken and a contrite heart God will not despise."

I love you my brother in Christ.

[winsome]

Hi Bruce,

I’ve just pulled out a book I have called Jesus said it… and I believe it by Jack McArdle. He says Jesus made us 157 promises in the gospels (IMO some of these are stretching it a bit to call them promises) and he goes through many of them in detail. The very first one is Mt 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

I’d like to quote a few extracts because it lines up with what you were saying in the OP.

I chose this to begin with, because it underpins all the promises of Jesus. He is giving us his word and wants us to take him at his word……There is no way he could be more emphatic about how sure his promises are. … He emphasises how serious that promise is, but then leaves the rest to us. We may choose or not to believe him, but to ignore the promise is just another way of expressing our unbelief…..

Refusal to accept or believe this word is a very serious thing. The gospels contain many promises and, and we are rejecting the core of the message if we refuse to believe those promises..…...Not to believe Jesus is to throw the whole offer of incarnation, and all that’s stems from that back in his face. The whole purpose of his mission, and everything he achieved for us is rejected. What is left for us? Nothing; nothing at all. We are lost sheep who choose to remain lost, and exposed to the ravages of the world……

It is absolutely impossible to grasp the enormity of the rewards and blessings that are ours when we accept the truth of his promises. We are safe and happy for life, and for eternity. His promises protect us, like some superb insurance policy. We are insulated against evil, against death……Belief in his promises is not some magic formula, nor is it a question of gritted teeth, clenched fist, or flexed muscles. It is a simple response to a sincere and genuine offer of love. This offer has no small print, or no hidden agenda. It is an offer made that is made for my sake only, and accepting the offer brings nothing but untold blessings…...all he asks is that we believe him. He pledges that word against heaven and earth.

winsome

Originally Posted by winsome

Hi Bruce,

I’ve just pulled out a book I have called Jesus said it… and I believe it by Jack McArdle. He says Jesus made us 157 promises in the gospels (IMO some of these are stretching it a bit to call them promises) and he goes through many of them in detail. The very first one is Mt 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

I’d like to quote a few extracts because it lines up with what you were saying in the OP.

I chose this to begin with, because it underpins all the promises of Jesus. He is giving us his word and wants us to take him at his word……There is no way he could be more emphatic about how sure his promises are. … He emphasises how serious that promise is, but then leaves the rest to us. We may choose or not to believe him, but to ignore the promise is just another way of expressing our unbelief…..

Refusal to accept or believe this word is a very serious thing. The gospels contain many promises and, and we are rejecting the core of the message if we refuse to believe those promises..…...Not to believe Jesus is to throw the whole offer of incarnation, and all that’s stems from that back in his face. The whole purpose of his mission, and everything he achieved for us is rejected. What is left for us? Nothing; nothing at all. We are lost sheep who choose to remain lost, and exposed to the ravages of the world……

It is absolutely impossible to grasp the enormity of the rewards and blessings that are ours when we accept the truth of his promises. We are safe and happy for life, and for eternity. His promises protect us, like some superb insurance policy. We are insulated against evil, against death……Belief in his promises is not some magic formula, nor is it a question of gritted teeth, clenched fist, or flexed muscles. It is a simple response to a sincere and genuine offer of love. This offer has no small print, or no hidden agenda. It is an offer made that is made for my sake only, and accepting the offer brings nothing but untold blessings…...all he asks is that we believe him. He pledges that word against heaven and earth.

winsome

Winsome, that was awesome. You just made my night, my brother. I am getting on Amazon right now to see if I can find it. God bless.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by BruceG

Time for sleep but one comment on a statement made. You asked:

How long does it take to kill the 'old man'?

In my understanding, it takes as long as necessary for us to run totally out of hope in fulfilling the commandments of Jesus by our self effort, effort that is not fueled by trust in "Christ in us".

When we finally break before Him and tell Him we have no strength to obey with pure motives and a pure heart, and cry out for a miracle in us, that is our "old man funeral day". I pray those listening to my words of good news get it faster than I did. It took me 37 years, sad to say. I am not proud of that fact, nor proud of anything in my walk. But I was proud, legalistic and full of myself. NOT a good combination. My old man dies a slow and painful death. Arrogance dies hard, LOL. But in God's plan, boasting is excluded. Until my pride hit zero, my flesh lives on.

What I will say is this as truth. You can never kill the flesh off a little bit at a time. It will not happen. When our last ditch efforts to slay the beast in us fail, and we bow before God and confess with tears and brokenness our utter inabilities to please Him in the manner He demands, with pure hearts and motives, do you know how He will respond? He will look us gently in the eye and say "I know. I have known all along. But you did not. Well done thou good and faithful servant."

Whatttt? He will be pleased with us for our disobedient hearts? No, but he will be pleased with our brokenness for having them, for that is the last requirement in order for us to truly believe fully that it must be His work. I will tell you this Amadeus, I fought several addictive sins both large and small for 37 years unsuccessfully and frankly I tried harder than most. But when I finally broke and heard those words of God, the love of God swept into my dry wineskin of a heart and it became like the Garden of Eden, and sins that had been my vanquisher for decades died in one day. That was eight months ago. I have not been the same since. God now has my heart, 100%, where before to will was present with me, but how to perform I found not. The battle raged no more. Praise God.

I pray this helps. God in His love will do whatever is needed to bring us to our knees, because that is a prerequisite to truly believe in His work. It is then that we can truly reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin and alive unto Him . This is the mystery of coming lower to get higher.

"A broken and a contrite heart God will not despise."

I love you my brother in Christ.

Thank you brother Bruce!