There is a huge decision coming for each of us. It may be this week, this month, this year. It may be today. All I do know is that at some point, God is going to stop us each in our religious tracks long enough to ask us a question. One simple question....


"Lovest thou Me more than these?"


...as we see Him wave His hand toward a table full of baubles, all sparkling and desirous. What are these jewels, glittering in the sun? They are our minor Gods.....religious affiliation, doctrines and bible knowledge, self love (ok, I was wrong, that one is a major God) and God is asking what if...what if he asked us to give it all up for Him...would we? How much do they mean to us? For many, it would be impossible, as they are so grown into their creeds that they cannot breath the pure air of Him alone. But thank God there are many, and the number grows daily, that are tired of religion and want God..... nothing more, and nothing less.


Many have acccused me of being negative toward the church that God is pleased with us and all is GREAT I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but what God sees is a people content to have a form of godliness but who deny the power of godliness. not only in their lifestyles but even in their doctrines, as they have made allowances for sin and defeat to be a normal part of the growth process. It is not.


We simply do not see we have decided to create our own brand of holiness, through self effort and diligence, rather than taking it from the hand of God by faith alone, daily. Our way leaves us religious but empty, His way leaves us spiritual and full...to the brim and then overflowing. So far, we have clung to our doctrines and church affiliations, but I see a fork in the road up ahead....


The church today is full of proudly proclaiming their religious banner.... We are Adventists!" or "The Catholic Church is THE church!" or "It is Baptist or hell, brother." God, my prayer is that I will some day hear ONE denomination stand up and say:


"We do not have the truth. We do not walk in what we teach. We play like we are full and happy but inside, we rot. God forgive us our cold, lukewarm hearts. God forgive us of our worldly lifestyle. God forgive us of not believing your words to us. God forgive us of boasting as to our spiritual depth when compared to other denominations. It is an evil heart Lord, a proud heart, and we do not want it any more. God forgive us of saying "We are rich and powerful and increased in goods, and have need of nothing" and know not that we are poor and blind and naked amd miserable in your sight."


If we are miserable in God's eyes, and He loves us, can you only imagine what most of the world thinks of us.... truly? It is not a pretty picture, and frankly we deserve everything they throw at us. We have represented the efforts and love of Christ in an almost non-existant fashion on this planet. (God bless those who do make a difference, you are like cool water in a parched desert.. . thank you!)


But do not take my opinion of our present day church, for God said:


"You have blasphemed my Holy name wherever you have gone. And the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall be sanctified IN YOU in their midst."


Do we not think now would be a good time for us to do that, to submit to God to let him do for us what we have foolishly taken into our own hands to do? You cannot reform your old nature and make it new. It must die. It is NOT a lifelong process. Growing in grace is but you cannot grow TO grace. It is a work of faith whereby we NOW reckon our old man dead to sin and alive to righteousness. God finished off the above quote in Ezekiel 36:37 with:


"I shall yet be inquired of by the house of by the House of Israel to do it for them."


Everyone of us has an oncoming appointment with God, a time to leave our hog trough living, miserable, empty, defeated by sin, the flesh and the devil, to finally "come to ourselves" and turn back in faith toward God. There is not one thing you have to do except yield yourself to God as a servant hungry for Him, and simply believe God's victory, hidden in youre new nature, is yours, for indeed it is.


At some point, we will face the clear choice, a clear choice we have to date muddied and contorted. The choice is, "Will we continue to rule ourselves and self still lives, or will we by faith put off the old man and put on the new and lose our lives to find His? That one question will determine more than we can even imagine.

[doinghiswill]

Well said! Many do not want to hear about the troubles of the Church at large. Some have carved out a false image of who God the Father really is and has by their there own thinking forgot.....Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Again I say many of us have been eating from the wrong tree. Denomanation very nearly does not matter.Just this one thing.Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
and again just so that each Christian can check his own heart and motive...
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
So what is it that we are really after?

[Soulheart3]

Originally Posted by BruceG

There is a huge decision coming for each of us. It may be this week, this month, this year. It may be today. All I do know is that at some point, God is going to stop us each in our religious tracks long enough to ask us a question. One simple question....


"Lovest thou Me more than these?"

And some of us have already had this decision put upon us already and answered it Bruce. But its a decision we all will HAVE to face soon if we havent already and cannot hide from it as many have (even good natured christians). Another thing we truly need to do is be "lead by the Holy Spirit" regardless of the difficulty of it or the fear of it. And to be ready to do His will regardless of ANYTHING that might be a roadblock to accomplishing it. No excuses will be accepted for much longer, without bad consequences following.

[Amadeus]

We cannot win! Only God can win! The only thing we do is make certain that we are on God's side!

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Matt 6:24

What i understand about god is this...god is happy! Therefore entirely satisfied with himself and his work. If we dont approve of the progress he has made in the church then we are unhappy, but he still is happy. We are gods business and his workmanship. If we are faced with a weeping father, who feels like his children has abanodoned him, and done him wrong, we would have an emotionally unstable god, who sits in sackloth and ashes because his children wont act right! Thats not the kind of god i know, but then i think i might be in the minority here. If god had to ask us...do you love me more than these, based on what can we answer him? Do we have all the facts? Can we see the end from the beginning? Do we understand ourselves like he understands us? Yes we should love god more than anything else, and yes we should trust god more than anything else, but love never worked on shoulds and oughts, love is sponataneous.

Again, a father wont stop his children and ask them, 'do you love me more than these' That is not a question that a father asks his children. It could be a question that a master asks his servant who he feels does not serve him out of honour and a genuine understanding of duty, but rather out of shallow ought and shoulds. There is a difference between the relationship a child has with their father and a servant has with its master. Which one do you wanna be? The servant or the child?

There is no upcoming big choice we have to make other than this.....do you believe god is happy with himself, and therefore right on top of things? Or do you believe you, yes YOU, have been able to twart the universal plans and purposes of god? If you think you have messed up gods plans then you need to humble yourself. Even if you are Satan himself, you wont be able to stop gods ultimate plans. So then...might as well enjoy god and be happy with him, because he is truly happy with himself.

Heneni

Originally Posted by Heneni

What i understand about god is this...god is happy! Therefore entirely satisfied with himself and his work. If we dont approve of the progress he has made in the church then we are unhappy, but he still is happy. We are gods business and his workmanship. If we are faced with a weeping father, who feels like his children has abanodoned him, and done him wrong, we would have an emotionally unstable god, who sits in sackloth and ashes because his children wont act right! Thats not the kind of god i know, but then i think i might be in the minority here. If god had to ask us...do you love me more than these, based on what can we answer him? Do we have all the facts? Can we see the end from the beginning? Do we understand ourselves like he understands us? Yes we should love god more than anything else, and yes we should trust god more than anything else, but love never worked on shoulds and oughts, love is sponataneous.

Again, a father wont stop his children and ask them, 'do you love me more than these' That is not a question that a father asks his children. It could be a question that a master asks his servant who he feels does not serve him out of honour and a genuine understanding of duty, but rather out of shallow ought and shoulds. There is a difference between the relationship a child has with their father and a servant has with its master. Which one do you wanna be? The servant or the child?

There is no upcoming big choice we have to make other than this.....do you believe god is happy with himself, and therefore right on top of things? Or do you believe you, yes YOU, have been able to twart the universal plans and purposes of god? If you think you have messed up gods plans then you need to humble yourself. Even if you are Satan himself, you wont be able to stop gods ultimate plans. So then...might as well enjoy god and be happy with him, because he is truly happy with himself.

Heneni

Of course God is happy with himself. But was he happy for Jesusalem when He road in on a donkeyt the day before His crucifiction? He lamented over it with tears for the blindness that would be exposed the next day. Is God happy with the church of Laodecia? Re-read it, henini. He threatens to spew "His children" out of His mouth.

As to your belief that God would not ask His children about their love for Him, that is exactly the question Jesus asked Peter, three times no less, after His resurrection. He was addressing his child, Peter, not some servant on the street. You can run away from the question, but it is still there facing each of us until we answer. And if we choose to not answer? Then that is our answer.

As far as your analogy of servant and child, there is a secret there. You cannot truly be a child till you break and become His servant first. And that, henini, is the fork in the road for you, for me and for all who would call Him their master. Self must be offered up willingly and reckoned dead, and faith must be exercised to take hold of promises that are reserved for those truly desiring sonship.

[NotFinishedYet]

Originally Posted by BruceG

Of course God is happy with himself. But was he happy for Jesusalem when He road in on a donkeyt the day before His crucifiction? He lamented over it with tears for the blindness that would be exposed the next day. Is God happy with the church of Laodecia? Re-read it, henini. He threatens to spew "His children" out of His mouth.

As to your belief that God would not ask His children about their love for Him, that is exactly the question Jesus asked Peter, three times no less, after His resurrection. He was addressing his child, Peter, not some servant on the street. You can run away from the question, but it is still there facing each of us until we answer. And if we choose to not answer? Then that is our answer.

As far as your analogy of servant and child, there is a secret there. You cannot truly be a child till you break and become His servant first. And that, henini, is the fork in the road for you, for me and for all who would call Him their master. Self must be offered up willingly and reckoned dead, and faith must be exercised to take hold of promises that are reserved for those truly desiring sonship.

God asked me years ago that dreaded question: "do you love me more than these?". But the "these" he pointed to was not my health nor wealth, but it was to my husband and my core faith in God Himself. He asked if I was willing to give up my husband to a life of a monk, living solely to worship and serve Him. Not only did I have to decide if I loved my husband enough to give him up to my God, I had to decide if I trusted my God enough to believe His hand was in all that was about to happen.

Years later, with more love now in my heart for God, my husband, and the church of God, I still hear the whisper on occasion: "do you love me more than..." And I can still stand firm in saying: "yes, Lord, though never enough." May we all come to hear that whisper and stand firm in trusting His love.

I’ve said this before.

I believe that the purpose of my life is to continually bring me face to face with these sort of challenges (all of which I fail to fully address) so that by the time I reach life’s end I will be of such a broken and contrite heart that I will meet my Lord, truly being able to say “nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling”.

That, Bruce, is the greatest good that can come of continually seeing shortcomings within ourselves and within our brothers and sisters.

“Bind us together Lord, Bind us together with cords that cannot be broken.
Bind us together Lord, Bind us together with love”

Mike (T2O and each other)

[Soulheart3]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

We cannot win! Only God can win! The only thing we do is make certain that we are on God's side!

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Matt 6:24

We truly cannot win, WE truly cannot win. But God chooses to use US, his faulty children to often accomplish many of his purposes on this earth, and that is what we truly must do, to be ready to always do the Lords will, to be HIS vessels to help bring about the Victory.

[Soulheart3]

Originally Posted by Heneni

Yes we should love god more than anything else, and yes we should trust god more than anything else, but love never worked on shoulds and oughts, love is sponataneous.

I cor 13: here and there, read it yourself, I will paraphrase.

NO matter what, even if I have all the gifts of heaven and all faith, if I do not have Love, I am NOTHING! If I give everything I have to the poor or even give my life up for some noble cause and dont have Love, I am NOTHING!

Love is patient, Love is kind, Love is not jealous, Love does not brag and is not arrogant. Love does not seek its own, its not provoked, it does not take into account any wrong suffered, it does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears ALL things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love NEVER fails. Many spiritual gifts will one day be done away with, but LOVE NEVER fails.

Now faith, hope, and love, abide in these three, but the GREATEST of these is LOVE!!!

I just had to add that in, I love this bit of scripture. I dont believe love is a spontaneous thing in general although sometimes it can be. I believe LOVE is a "choice", and a choice we gladly make despite the difficulty of it sometimes. I find it hard sometimes to be patient, and sometimes I can be arrogant, and I can be sometimes provoked, so love is not always easy for me and I think its not "easy" for anyone on this earth. But it's a choice I gladly make for I know its for my good and the good of those around me. God is indeed happy, but God (through Christ) wept when he saw Jerusalem. I assume God wept when He flooded the earth. I assume God wept when he brought on babylonian captivity to His people, but despite the saddness, He knew it would be for the better. Yet I doubt God ever rejoiced in his judgement that He as at times has given unto His children. He simply had to do the right thing, as thats GOD's nature.