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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Bible Chat  > Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

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  #1  
Old 03-31-2009, 10:58 PM
antonio
 
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Default Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

I believe as taught that the Kingdom of God is within. Knowing that, where is heaven? When Jesus ascended, to where did He ascend?
I'm not suggesting that the Kingdom/Heaven/ManyMansions/ throne of God have some physical location. I'm just asking are all these spiritual phenomenon in the same "place, "within" also? Did Jesus enter the Kingdom, and thus all of us, when He ascended? Is God also in His Kingdom?
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2009, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

The Kingdom of heaven is only within those who have Christ and the Holy Spirit livng within them. The Kingdom of heaven is the spiritual REALM in which God resides. His Eternal Kingdom. Heaven is the REALM is which God lives and rules. The spiritual realm. Different levels of heaven, but all the same realm in which God reigns in.
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2009, 02:10 AM
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

I know that the kingdom of God is a spiritual place.Of course there is the heaven promise that we are seeking in eternal life through Christ. . GOdis with us and able to keep us no matter what place we are in, The Lord reigns. Thanks for your posting. GOd Bless Chaplailn Lukens
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2009, 08:01 AM
antonio
 
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

Thank you both, Chaplain and Spirit.
Spirit, can you give me a teaching of Jesus that tells us the Kingdom of Heaven is restricted?

Also,you wrote
Quote:
The Kingdom of heaven is only within those who have Christ and the Holy Spirit livng within them.
where is Jesus' teaching on this? And, then are you saying that the Kingdom that is within as Jesus taught, is also the residence of Jesus and the Holy Spirit--is the entirety of any spiritual realm, the one within?
thank you so much--This is not clear to me and I have never heard it discussed other than the saying that the kingdom is within.
blessings to both of you
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

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Originally Posted by antonio View Post
Thank you both, Chaplain and Spirit.
Spirit, can you give me a teaching of Jesus that tells us the Kingdom of Heaven is restricted?

Also,you wrote where is Jesus' teaching on this? And, then are you saying that the Kingdom that is within as Jesus taught, is also the residence of Jesus and the Holy Spirit--is the entirety of any spiritual realm, the one within?
thank you so much--This is not clear to me and I have never heard it discussed other than the saying that the kingdom is within.
blessings to both of you

An unbeliever does not have the Holy Spirit living within them so obviously the Kingdom of heaven isn't "in them". The Kingdom of heaven, represented by the Holy Spirit in this case, would reside within all beleivers since the Holy Spirit lives in all who believe. Jesus Christ would never tell someone who didnt know God, that the Kingdom of heaven was within them, because it isn't. Jesus said, you must be born again to see the Kingdom of God, which is the Kingdom of heaven. John 3:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven". Matthew 18:3 When He told the Pharisees that the Kingdom of heaven doesn't come with observation, but that the Kingdom of heaven is within you, He wasn't saying it was within THEM, He was saying to those who know God, the Kingdom of heaven is within you, because again obviously, the Kingdom of heaven was NOT within the Pharisees.
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2009, 11:54 AM
antonio
 
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

Dear Spirit--thank you. Is "having the kingdom of heaven within" the same as "entering the "Kingdom of Heaven"? In other words, if the metaphor were to be continued, I could tell X," Look, on the hill. That's the Kingdom of Heaven." If X wanted to go in the Kingdom, my response is,"Oh, you can't go inside unless you believe."
ERGO: 1. X can know where the Kingdom is but entering the kingdom is another thing.

Another question, Does the kingdom of heaven have any existence if there is no human being? In other words, is there a "kingdom of God" somewhere besides within humans? Does the existence of God depend upon the existence of human beings? If there were no humans or as you say, no "believers" would there be no Kingdom of God?


thank you and blessings to you

Last edited by antonio : 04-01-2009 at 12:04 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonio View Post
I believe as taught that the Kingdom of God is within. Knowing that, where is heaven? When Jesus ascended, to where did He ascend?
I'm not suggesting that the Kingdom/Heaven/ManyMansions/ throne of God have some physical location. I'm just asking are all these spiritual phenomenon in the same "place, "within" also? Did Jesus enter the Kingdom, and thus all of us, when He ascended? Is God also in His Kingdom?
The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are synonymous in scripture.

Matthew only, uses the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Mr 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

At any rate, the kingdom was something that the Jews looked forward to as being a physical manifestation. Jesus made some fairly cryptic statements regarding it. Some of which many translators (such as them that translated the KJV) have had some difficulty with.

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I think that Jesus was not telling these Phsrisees that the kingdom of God was within them. But many translators prefer the alternate translation of that term, which is "among you".

If that is true, Jesus was telling His audience that He Himself was the very embodiment of the kingdom of God. There are other passages which confirm this interpretation.

Mt 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

There is also the manifestation of the kingdom of God upon the earth (which many refer to as the millenial kingdom). Jesus did say (above) that kingdom of God comes not with observation. But in my opinion he is referring there to the kingdom of God that exists now, within the Church.

He also said this:
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The term "now" is a term that means "not at this time". Jesus did not say that there would not be an earthly manifestation of the kingdom of God, he simply said it was not to happen at that time. He also says that it is not "from hence" or "of this world". Which to me, indicates that his authority was not from the world and thus not the threat that would have been perceived by Pilot. Point is, we have no authority from anywhere else in scripture to assume Jesus meant there would be no physical manifestation of the kingdom of God.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Here, Jesus never denies their expectation, but simply tells them that the timing is not for them to know.

I know this goes beyond your questions, but I wanted to comment thoroughly on the topic. Actually there is much more to be said, but I'll leave it there for now.

Grace and peace.
__________________
No man is excluded from calling upon God,
the gate of salvation is set open unto all men:
neither is there any other thing which keepeth us
back from entering in, save only our own unbelief.
~John Calvin
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  #8  
Old 04-01-2009, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

The Kingdom of God is eternal. It has always existed with God. It is the REALM in which God rules and reigns. His eternal Kingdom. He ALLOWS us to share that Kingdom with Him, and when we ENTER IN, through the new birth, we LEARN how to operate in His Kingdom. His Kingdom has laws that govern it and we can partake in His Kingdom.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit View Post
The Kingdom of God is eternal. It has always existed with God. It is the REALM in which God rules and reigns. His eternal Kingdom. He ALLOWS us to share that Kingdom with Him, and when we ENTER IN, through the new birth, we LEARN how to operate in His Kingdom. His Kingdom has laws that govern it and we can partake in His Kingdom.
Agreed. But that's only half the story. The other half is that Jesus is the promised Messiah which was raised to sit upon Davids throne (Acts 2:30).
__________________
No man is excluded from calling upon God,
the gate of salvation is set open unto all men:
neither is there any other thing which keepeth us
back from entering in, save only our own unbelief.
~John Calvin
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  #10  
Old 04-01-2009, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Kingdom of God is w/in but where's Heaven?

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Originally Posted by LaMontre View Post
Agreed. But that's only half the story. The other half is that Jesus is the promised Messiah which was raised to sit upon Davids throne (Acts 2:30).
I ran out of breath...
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