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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Bible Chat  > For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

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Old 12-18-2018, 02:09 PM
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Default For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

BAC = Born Again Christian

The problem with understanding the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms is the church today
(and what it has been taught) is so different than what the NT church believed in.
Satan has been successful in deceiving the church about several things, including
“the baptism with the Holy Spirit” and the 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Corinthians 12).
So, please read the following with an open mind and heart.

Paul said the Holy Spirit is the One who baptizes the new believer:
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body [the church]
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)

The new believer (a BAC) receives the Holy Spirit INSIDE (John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11,
1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16).

First … Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to His 11 disciples:
“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you.”
Then He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” (John 20:21-22)

And the Holy Spirit baptized them as new believers (see 1 Cor 12:13 above).
Please note … All BACs are given peace by “the Prince of peace” (Isaiah 9:6).
“For Christ Himself has brought peace to us.” (Ephesians 2:14)
“God’s peace exceeds anything we can understand” (Philippians 4:7)


John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit
in the following verses: Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.

Second … Jesus promised them that they would receive the gift of the
baptism of the Holy Spirit, which brings a spiritual anointing and power:

● “Behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of
Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49)
● “Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift He promised,
as I told you before [in Luke 24:49]. John baptized with water,
but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 1:4)
● “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you.
And you will be My witnesses, telling people about Me everywhere …” (Acts 1:8)

The baptism with the Holy Spirit was the gift which had been promised.

Third … Jesus’ 11 disciples witnessed to many others who became BACs:
“During this time, when about 120 believers were together in one place,
Peter stood up and addressed them, “Brothers …” (Acts 1:15, NLT)

These 120 were all new believers (BACs actually) …
and they had received the Holy Spirit INSIDE (see 1 Corinthians 12:13 above).

“While Jesus’ disciples were waiting for the gift of the Holy Spirit, they all joined together
constantly in prayer. It is mainly through prayer that we obtain the power of the Holy Spirit
(Luke 11:13) … In addition to Jesus’ main disciples, there were in Jerusalem at that time
about 120 other believers. Perhaps among them were the 72 believers whom Jesus sent
out ahead of Him to announce the coming of the kingdom of God (Luke 10:1-11) ... Many
Christians say that some time after having put faith in Christ and having received the Holy
Spirit the first time, they then have experienced a new filling of the Spirit. These Christians
call this new experience of the Spirit a “second blessing”, or “the baptism with the Spirit”.
They are filled with the Spirit in a new and deeper way, and they receive a new power and zeal”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996, Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary)


Fourth … a few days later, the now 12 disciples (and others) experienced the day of Pentecost:
“On the day of Pentecost all the [120] believers were meeting together in one place.
Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm,
and it filled the house where they were sitting. Then what looked like flames or
tongues of fire appeared and settled [up] on each of them. And everyone present
was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking with other languages [tongues],
as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.” (Acts 2:1-4, NLT)

On the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came UPON the 120 believers. Peter tried to explain …
“And the Father, as He had promised, gave Him [Jesus] the Holy Spirit to pour out upon us,
just as you see and hear today … Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God,
and be [water] baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:33-38)


Other obvious examples of the baptism with the Holy Spirit (where the Spirit comes UPON) are:
Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 19:5-6.

Summarizing the above
1 ● Jesus' 11 disciples received the Holy Spirit (making them BACs) in John 20:21-22.
This first Spirit baptism is done by the Holy Spirit (see 1 Corinthians 12:13 above).
2 ● Jesus promised His 11 disciples that they would receive the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit
(where the Spirit comes UPON), which brings spiritual power (see Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4, Acts 1:8).
3 ● Prior to the day of Pentecost, the 120 were called believers (see Acts 1:15, NLT).
On the day of Pentecost, before anything happened, the 120 were called believers (see Acts 2:1, NLT).
4 ● Finally, the 120 believers received the baptism with the Holy Spirit …
with the evidence of speaking in tongues (see Acts 2:2-4).
This second Spirit baptism is done by Jesus Christ (see Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33).

Last edited by BCsenior : 12-18-2018 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:14 PM
Selene's Avatar
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCsenior View Post
BAC = Born Again Christian

The problem with understanding the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms is the church today
(and what it has been taught) is so different than what the NT church believed in.
Satan has been successful in deceiving the church about several things, including
“the baptism with the Holy Spirit” and the 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Corinthians 12).
So, please read the following with an open mind and heart.
There is no such thing as 2 Holy Spirit baptisms. In the first place, there is only one baptism. The Holy Spirit doesn't come to baptize twice because there is only one baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-5 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

St. Paul speaks of one baptism because water and spirit completes one baptism. Water and spirit were meant to be together, not separate. When Jesus went to the Jordan River to be baptized by John, John was baffled because Jesus didn't need to be baptized. John said that it is he (John) who should be baptize by Jesus. Jesus didn't need baptism because he didn't have any sins and He is God. Nevertheless, Christ told John, "It is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:13-15).

God authorized man to baptize with water for the repentance of sins (See John 21:25 and John 1:33) God, on the other hand, baptized with the Holy Spirit. This has not changed. And so, in every Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church, you see man baptizing with water and God baptizing with the Holy Spirit in that moment. God is present in the Sacrament of Baptism.

Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And Christ showed us the way of proper baptism. Christ was baptized with water and Spirit, and Christ is the role model that all Christians should follow. It is clear that one must be born again with water AND spirit, not with spirit alone. One must be born again with water AND Spirit....these are the words coming from Jesus Christ. Why water AND spirit? Because water signifies the repentance and forgiveness of sins. How can one receive the Holy Spirit if they are unrepentant of their sins? Water also signifies new birth into a divine life with God and the fruitfulness of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[fn] one Spirit.

As "by one Spirit we were all baptized," so we are also "made to drink of one Spirit." Thus the Spirit is also personally the living water welling up from Christ giving us to eternal life. A Christian is baptized only once for there is only one baptism as St. Paul stated (Ephesians 4:4-5). Upon baptism, he/she receives the Holy Spirit just as the Apostle Peter stated (Acts 2:38).

Quote:
Fourth … a few days later, the now 12 disciples (and others) experienced the day of Pentecost:
“On the day of Pentecost all the [120] believers were meeting together in one place.
Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm,
and it filled the house where they were sitting. Then what looked like flames or
tongues of fire appeared and settled [up] on each of them. And everyone present
was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking with other languages [tongues],
as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.” (Acts 2:1-4, NLT)
Pentecost is not a baptism but a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Catholics believe that this was the Sacrament of Confirmation. Through this outpouring from the Holy Spirit (Confirmation), the Holy Spirit gave us an increased ability to practice our faith in every aspect of our life and to witness Christ in every situation.

As you can see from the Bible, before Pentecost, the Apostles hid in fear. They were afraid. After Pentecost, suddenly the fear was gone. They came out and publicly spoke about the resurrection. After Pentecost, they were no longer afraid to die for Christ. This outpouring of the Holy Spirit is what Catholics call the "Sacrament of Confirmation." This sacrament seals us with the Holy Spirit.

The Apostles and disciples of Christ at Pentecost were already baptised with water because John came baptizing with water for the repentance of sins. Pentecost (the outpouring of the Holy Spirit) completed their baptism (Acts 1:4-5). Water and spirit completed their baptism. Christ said that to enter the kingdom of Heaven, you must be born again of water and spirit.

It was also at Pentecost that Christians believe the Church was born.

Last edited by Selene : 12-18-2018 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 02:34 AM
Selene's Avatar
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCsenior View Post
Summarizing the above
1 ● Jesus' 11 disciples received the Holy Spirit (making them BACs) in John 20:21-22.
This first Spirit baptism is done by the Holy Spirit (see 1 Corinthians 12:13 above).
2 ● Jesus promised His 11 disciples that they would receive the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit
(where the Spirit comes UPON), which brings spiritual power (see Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4, Acts 1:8).
3 ● Prior to the day of Pentecost, the 120 were called believers (see Acts 1:15, NLT).
On the day of Pentecost, before anything happened, the 120 were called believers (see Acts 2:1, NLT).
4 ● Finally, the 120 believers received the baptism with the Holy Spirit …
with the evidence of speaking in tongues (see Acts 2:2-4).
This second Spirit baptism is done by Jesus Christ (see Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33).
I would also like to address these two biblical passages, which you claim are 2 baptisms of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus told his Apostles that He cannot send the Holy Spirit until He returns to the Father. However, in John 20:21-22, the Apostles received the Holy Spirit before Pentecost. You are correct that before Pentecost, only the 11 Apostles received the Holy Spirit. At that time, He gave the Holy Spirit only to the Apostles to show that only the Apostles (who were priests and bishops) had the authority to hear confessions and to forgive sins or retain sins. This authority of forgiving or retaining sins by priests and bishops is still being practiced today in the Catholic Church.

John 20:21-22 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained

At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came upon ALL the disciples of Christ, not just the Apostles, and the Church was born. Pentecost was what Christ promised to His Church.

Last edited by Selene : 12-19-2018 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selene View Post
There is no such thing as 2 Holy Spirit baptisms. In the first place, there is only one baptism.
The Holy Spirit doesn't come to baptize twice because there is only one baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-5 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
We have one Lord, we have one faith, and we are all baptized in the name of that one Lord into one body (the church)
--- as we see in 1 Corinthians 12:13. This is the first Spirit baptism.

Hebrews 6:1-2
"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ,
let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation
of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
of the doctrine of baptisms (plural),
of laying on of hands,
of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment."


Beyond this, I cannot help you ...
because you are totally and completely deceived by your RCC.

Don't you understand that Satan is the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world?

Only the most precious Holy Spirit is able to reveal spiritual Truth to you.
But, for this to happen, you must be OPEN to receiving the Truth from God.

Last edited by BCsenior : 12-19-2018 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCsenior View Post
We have one Lord, we have one faith, and we are all baptized in the name of that one Lord into one body (the church)
BCsenior, why did you ignore the Scripture that clearly stated, "ONE Baptism?" Do not add to Scripture just to fit your belief. St. Paul made it clear that there is one baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-5 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith, one baptism;


Quote:
--- as we see in 1 Corinthians 12:13. This is the first Spirit baptism.

Hebrews 6:1-2
"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ,
let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation
of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
of the doctrine of baptisms (plural),
of laying on of hands,
of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment."
So, now you find in scripture "doctrine of baptisms", which is in the plural tense. Do you think that Sacred Scripture would contradict itself? Do you honestly believe that St. Paul will clearly teach "ONE Baptism" in Ephesians and then Hebrews will come up with many different baptisms? God doesn't contract Himself. He will not say one thing and then turn around and say the opposite. It is clear from the Bible that there is only ONE baptism. That one baptism consist of WATER AND SPIRIT. It must be BOTH, not one or the other.

The Bible clearly showed that a baptism with only water will not do (See Acts 19:3-6). And a baptism with only the Spirit will also not do (See Acts 10:44-47). Therefore, the only baptism that would be in the plural tense is one that is a baptism of water and a baptism of Spirit. The Bible only speaks of these two. John the baptist came baptizing with water, and Jesus (who came after him) came baptizing with the Holy Spirit. Those are the only two spoken about in the Bible.

John came baptizing with water for the forgiveness of sins. Pentecost completes the Sacrament of Baptism. After all, how can one receive the Holy Spirit without the repentance of sins? One must first repent from their sins and be baptized. Then one will receive the Holy Spirit. This is what St. Peter said after Pentecost. Repent and be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). A baptism of water and spirit equals ONE baptism. Why? Because water and spirit were not meant to be separated, but together.

Quote:
Beyond this, I cannot help you ...
because you are totally and completely deceived by your RCC.
BCsenior, you began your first post addressing "Born Again Christians" and then speak of only 2 spirit baptisms. Yet, the Holy Bible is very clear that to be "born again" one must be born of water and spirit. These are the words that came from Jesus' mouth. So, who should "Born Again Christians" believe? Should they believe Jesus who stated, "you must be born again of water and spirit to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" or should they believe YOU who speak of only 2 Spirit baptisms?

Last edited by Selene : 12-19-2018 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCsenior View Post
We have one Lord, we have one faith, and we are all baptized in the name of that one Lord into one body (the church)
--- as we see in 1 Corinthians 12:13. This is the first Spirit baptism.

Hebrews 6:1-2
"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ,
let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation
of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
of the doctrine of baptisms (plural),
of laying on of hands,
of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment."


Beyond this, I cannot help you ...
because you are totally and completely deceived by your RCC.

Don't you understand that Satan is the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world?

Only the most precious Holy Spirit is able to reveal spiritual Truth to you.
But, for this to happen, you must be OPEN to receiving the Truth from God.
I am not Catholic and know your dead wrong and preaching a strange gospel.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.


Gal 1:8 ESV
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Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the malice and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetiger View Post
I am not Catholic and know your dead wrong and preaching a strange gospel.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary
to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:8 ESV
Please enlighten me as to this strange gospel that you accuse me of.
Is it merely the 2 Spirit baptisms? Or, is there more?

FYI, this thread is not about the "gospel" (good news); it is not a salvation issue.

Re: your Gal 1:8, perhaps "the one" preached to you is incorrect,
and perhaps he/she is the one who should be accursed.

Thank you for calling me accursed.

Last edited by BCsenior : 12-20-2018 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 12-20-2018, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

There is no such thing as "2 Spirit Baptism" and your right that Satan deceives. There is only one Baptism and no more. You will not find any mention of such a strange idea as your mentioned anywhere in the Early Church or anywhere until you.
__________________
Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the malice and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.
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Old 12-20-2018, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetiger View Post
There is no such thing as "2 Spirit Baptism" and your right that Satan deceives. There is only one Baptism and no more. You will not find any mention of such a strange idea as your mentioned anywhere in the Early Church or anywhere until you.
Amen brother
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Asking for the possible benefit of the doubt.

Is it possible that BCsenior is only off in his labeling?

1) We all know one Receives the Holy Spirit when they are Baptized.
2) We all know of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when one receives the Gifts of the Spirit.

Is this what he means by TWO Baptism's, or is he actually saying there are two or more separate and distinct Baptisms because, he did make mention of Baptisms being plural.

In those two verses the words (WORKS) and (HANDS) are also pluralized, can they be explained the same way as Baptisms is being defined?

More than anything else, what he is saying calls for an explanation of just what he means by saying more than one Baptism, if he cannot or will not then his claim is moot, and the debate is over.

JIM
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