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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Bible Chat  > A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

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  #1  
Old 11-03-2018, 07:34 AM
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Default A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Greetings!

“May God give you more and more grace and peace as you grow in
your knowledge of God and Jesus our Lord. By His divine power,
God has given us everything we need for living a godly life.”
(2 Peter 1:2-3, New Living Translation)

This warning concerns believers who are sinning habitually without repentance.
To repent: turn away from your sins, doing everything you can to forsake them.

The #1 Reason Why God sent the Messiah

A few old covenant people did manage to please and satisfy God.
But, Jesus came so that many more of the human race would be able to
satisfy Father God’s high standards, and thus be allowed into heaven!
Isn’t this the main reason for Jesus and the new covenant?

Those who believe in Jesus and His message …

❶ are given the Holy Spirit to indwell them to teach them “all things”
as well as be their Comforter, Advocate, Helper, Healer, etc.

❷ are made into new creations -- they have new and different ideas,
opinions, attitudes, priorities, etc. -- focusing more on spiritual things
(this new birth is a spiritual birth, while the 1st birth is a physical one).

❸ are given God’s Holy Scriptures to teach them and guide them.

❹ are sanctified unto holiness: God sets them apart for undergoing
the process of growing in holiness. However, they have free will
to reject God’s plan for them … and can fall away from the faith,
drift away, fall from grace, draw back to perdition (Hebrews 10:39), etc.

It should be obvious that these born-again believers (above) have
incredible advantages over God’s old covenant people. They have
been enabled (set free) to overcome sin, the world, and the devil!
They are set free from their blindness, being captives of Satan, etc.
They are now able to be “overcomers” as Jesus overcame (Rev 3:21).
They are now able to overcome sin, be sanctified unto holiness, and
thus be acceptable to Father God for a glorious entrance into heaven.
They need to sincerely repent of (run from) their new sins (2 Peter 1:9).

● To reconcile the so-called OSAS NT verses with the many verses
opposing them, it has been deduced by some Spirit-filled believers
that the NT usage of “pisteou” (believe) must include obedience!
(Note: The verb tenses in John 3:16 reflect a continuing “belief”.)

● Jesus said, “He who (really) loves Me will obey My commandments.”
Loving God is one of the 2 qualifying conditions for a person to be fore-
ordained, predestined, called, justified, and glorified (Romans 8:28-30).

… continued in post #2 …
__________________
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)
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Old 11-03-2018, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Many have said that we are the church of Laodicea (see Revelation 3:14-22),
and the reason is: pastors are not warning their sheep of their responsibilities.
Jesus often warned, “Do not let anyone deceive you.” Paul talked about
“this evil world in which we live” (Galatians 1:4), and Jesus even told His
12 disciples that they were evil (Luke 11:13).

Paul warned about the great apostacy (or falling away) in the last days
(1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Timothy 3:1-7). We believers have no excuse for this
this because God has given us everything we need to live holy lives.

So, it is necessary to explain why Paul wrote:
“work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12)

In everything below, “believers” refers to born-again believers.

This information is a warning to believers - backed up by many NT verses.
We have a part to play in our salvation other than belief-faith-trust in Jesus as
our Lord and Savior. We were chosen and called to be sanctified unto holiness
through our enduring faith-obedience to the Lord … instead of obedience to
Satan and the flesh.

From Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary to Nepal) …
“When Paul says ‘continue to work out your salvation’, he means that we must
obey Christ and do God’s will. We must continue to follow Christ’s example.
Our lives must become more and more holy. Jesus said ‘Be perfect as your
heavenly Father is perfect’. This is what it means to work out our salvation …
But remember this: We are free to reject God’s grace. We can refuse to obey
God’s will. We can continue in sin without repenting. That is dependent on us;
that is our choice. But if we choose to accept God’s grace and to obey Him,
then God has promised to help us.” (The Applied New Testament Commentary)

If we want to take the NT seriously, we need to reconcile the so-called OSAS
(once saved always saved) verses vs. those which stand opposed to OSAS!
The dozens of NT verses below stand opposed to OSAS.

Many NT verses prove each of these spiritual truths:
Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
Believers stay righteous through their obedience
Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
Believers must love, forgive, not judge or condemn
Believers must be victorious overcomers


One full page of Scripture verses is available for almost every topic.
__________________
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2018, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Born again is a Biblical term while OSAS is man's term or a derivation.

Who are the born agains ? they are the ones who meet the criteria of born again.

For me once saved by God will remain saved. But this does not mean be saved and sin all you want to. David is a man of God's own heart but later on committed adultery ,murder, cover up. But later on confessed, repented and got disciplined or punished.

Moses was not allowed to enter the Promised Land but allowed to go to heaven later appearing with Elijah in the transfiguration of our Lord. Some prophecy in Revelation appeared to tell that Moses might be back again as one of the two witnesses who will be killed.

OSAS should focus on assurance but not on liberty or permission to sin.

ped
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
Born again is a Biblical term while OSAS is man's term or a derivation.
Christians is a Biblical term, while Baptist, Episcopalian, Anglican, Pentecostal are mans terms or a derivation, what's your point?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
Who are the born agains ? they are the ones who meet the criteria of born again.
Can you provide just what that criteria is which one has to meet, in order to be a qualified Born Againer, according to your understanding or standard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
For me once saved by God will remain saved. But this does not mean be saved and sin all you want to.
Now Ped, that is nothing more than a bold faced exaggeration on a subject you know nothing about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
David is a man of God's own heart but later on committed adultery ,murder, cover up. But later on confessed, repented and got disciplined or punished.

Moses was not allowed to enter the Promised Land but allowed to go to heaven later appearing with Elijah in the transfiguration of our Lord. Some prophecy in Revelation appeared to tell that Moses might be back again as one of the two witnesses who will be killed.
I do not see where either one of these examples have any relation to OSAS, and do nothing to bolster your argument, it's apples and oranges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
OSAS should focus on assurance but not on liberty or permission to sin.

Sorry Ped, but it sounds like you are just parroting what you have heard or been taught from/by others, without any understanding on the subject of your own.


JIM

Last edited by Lookinforacity : 11-05-2018 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCsenior View Post
From Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary to Nepal) …
“When Paul says ‘continue to work out your salvation’, he means that we must
obey Christ and do God’s will. We must continue to follow Christ’s example.
Our lives must become more and more holy. Jesus said ‘Be perfect as your
heavenly Father is perfect’. This is what it means to work out our salvation …
But remember this: We are free to reject God’s grace. We can refuse to obey
God’s will. We can continue in sin without repenting. That is dependent on us;
that is our choice. But if we choose to accept God’s grace and to obey Him,
then God has promised to help us.” (The Applied New Testament Commentary)

The one thing (Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary to Nepal) neglected to understand was, Paul was ONLY speaking to those people (Not Us) because he (Paul) was not physically present with them, and was not around to spoon feed these new Christians any longer, he was in essence telling them it's time to grow up, I'm not there to change your diapers.

That is the sum total of what Paul said to THEM.

Php 2:1* If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,*
Php 2:2* Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.*
Php 2:3* Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.*
Php 2:4* Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.


Php 2:12* Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.*
Php 2:13* For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.*
Php 2:14* Do all things without murmurings and disputings:*
Php 2:15* That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;*

JIM
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
......Paul was ONLY speaking to those people (Not Us) because he (Paul) was not physically present with them.....
The scriptures speak to all people.
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
The scriptures speak to all people.
Your right CC, but, not everything was written to all people, and this is one of those things, I feel as though your taking things some what to literally, and in general.

What the good Missionary to Nepal has said was just a bad Interpretation of something which did not need an Interpretation to understand, it's sort of his, just trying to be Spiritual about everything.

It does not fall into the category of a Teaching, which would and does speak to All Christians, this on the other hand does not, as I pointed out.

As to your statement that Scripture speaking to all people.

Could you give me the rundown on how this does that?

2Jn 1:1* The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;*
2Jn 1:2* For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.*
2Jn 1:3* Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.*
2Jn 1:4* I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.*
2Jn 1:5* And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.*
2Jn 1:6* And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.*
2Jn 1:7* For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.*
2Jn 1:8* Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.*
2Jn 1:9* Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.*
2Jn 1:10* If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:*
2Jn 1:11* For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
2Jn 1:12* Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.*
2Jn 1:13* The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.*


3Jn 1:1* The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.*
3Jn 1:2* Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.*
3Jn 1:3* For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.*
3Jn 1:4* I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.*
3Jn 1:5* Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;*
3Jn 1:6* Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:*
3Jn 1:7* Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.*
3Jn 1:8* We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers to the truth.*
3Jn 1:9* I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.*
3Jn 1:10* Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.*
3Jn 1:11* Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.*
3Jn 1:12* Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.*



Be Blessed
JIM
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
Christians is a Biblical term, while Baptist, Episcopalian, Anglican, Pentecostal are mans terms or a derivation, what's your point?




Can you provide just what that criteria is which one has to meet, in order to be a qualified Born Againer, according to your understanding or standard?



Now Ped, that is nothing more than a bold faced exaggeration on a subject you know nothing about.



I do not see where either one of these examples have any relation to OSAS, and do nothing to bolster your argument, it's apples and oranges.




Sorry Ped, but it sounds like you are just parroting what you have heard or been taught from/by others, without any understanding on the subject of your own.


JIM
No problem, mine is just bird's eye view. The author of the OP seems to be all inclusive in his view or definition of born again. I believe i am a little bit more selective when i use the term born again.

As far as OSAS no one can see that exactly in the Bible. We humans may think we are born again or saved but God has the final say.

ped
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
Your right CC, but, not everything was written to all people, and this is one of those things, I feel as though your taking things some what to literally, and in general...........
I agree that not everything was written to all people, and I would point to John 20:23 as an example, "If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven", where Jesus gives the power to forgive sins to the apostles only, not everyone.
But I disagree that this statement by Paul is one of those things. We are ALL supposed to work out our salvation by doing the works that Christ commanded us to do.
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- Saint Pope John Paul II
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

What does work out your own salvation really mean ? I believe it is better explained by the next verse. It is God who works in us to do and to will of His good pleasure. In John chapter 15 , without Jesus we can do nothing. In short we need help from above. Those are saved are started by the Spirit and can be completed by the Spirit.

We will never outgrow our dependence on God.

ped
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