True2Ourselves
Already a member? login
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
  
+
Register FAQ A-Z directory Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Bible Chat  > Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-05-2016, 06:27 AM
rstrats's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 155
Default Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Matthew 12:40 quotes the Messiah saying that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights. A majority of folks believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week. This period of time, however, would only allow for 2 night times. To account for this discrepancy, it is frequently suggested that the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language of the time.

I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb) knows of any writing which shows a phrase from the first century or before which states a specific number of daytimes and/or a specific number of night times when the actual period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a portion of each one of the specific number of daytimes and at least a portion of each one of the specific number of night times?

And remember, the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that. However, for those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language I should think that one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used in order to legitimately say that it was common. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. I
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-05-2016, 09:08 PM
Suspended for Review
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 247
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

In a word, NO.

If He had said three days then He could have been, but would not have to have been.

The fact that He used the term three days AND three nights eliminates that possibly.

That and the fact that He was in the tomb exactly three days AND three nights.

The Bible spells it out 1, 2, 3.

Since Jesus said how long He would be in the tomb was the only sign He would leave of who He was I would think this would be of utmost importance.

Last edited by Antilies : 02-05-2016 at 09:13 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-05-2016, 09:44 PM
rstrats's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 155
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Antilies,

Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, you probably won't know of any writing.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-06-2016, 06:59 AM
CatholicCrusader's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,297
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
Matthew 12:40 quotes the Messiah saying that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights. A majority of folks believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week. This period of time, however, would only allow for 2 night times. To account for this discrepancy, it is frequently suggested that the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language of the time.

I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb) knows of any writing which shows a phrase from the first century or before which states a specific number of daytimes and/or a specific number of night times when the actual period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a portion of each one of the specific number of daytimes and at least a portion of each one of the specific number of night times?. . . . . .

Father Linsinbigler has addressed this issue so many times that I lost count long ago.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linsinbigler View Post
On another thread, a related subject to this was brought up. However, since the topic was narrowed to discussions of whether the 6th day was legitimate or not, and since was only focused on 3day/night passages. I decided not to derail and to start another thread.

So the question is, how can Christ have risen on the third day, after three days, and once three days and nights have passed? Was Christ contradicting himself? No, but Christ was speaking in such a manner that not everyone could understand him, but that biblically both statements were true at the same time.

Remember that we have to look at how the early Christians thought about these things. They were taught directly by the Apostles and handed down the very Scriptures we have today. The early Church Fathers, the early liturgical sources, and Scripture itself answers this question.

Remember that Scripture clearly defines the first definitions of day and night. "The light he called day, and the darkness he called night." This was before sun and starts. Scripture is clear that there was darkness over all the earth (land) from noon to 3pm. St. Mark states that Christ was crucified at the 3rd hour of the day (9am). That means, for 3 hours light (day 9am-noon), or 3 hours darkness (night noon-3pm), for another three hours day again (3pm-sundown), then night (sundown to sunrise), then day again (sunrise to dark on Saturday), then night again.

This gives us three days and three nights.

"Heart of the earth" could mean the grave in general, but it also was a name for Golgatha (the place of the skull of Adam), namely, Jerusalem outside the walls. Jerusalem itself was known as the "heart of the world" and "heart of the land (earth)." Christ was crucified on mount calvary and buried right beneath it, the area collectively called Golgatha.

I really am not interested in debating with anyone. It took me several decades to research all of this and if you are opposed to it, then peace be with you.
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-06-2016, 04:33 PM
Suspended for Review
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 247
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
Antilies,

Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, you probably won't know of any writing.
Only if you exclude the Bible.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-18-2016, 09:01 PM
rstrats's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 155
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Antilies,
re: "Only if you exclude the Bible."

That will be fine.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-27-2016, 01:23 AM
Linsinbigler's Avatar
Representative Clergy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,150
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Father Linsinbigler has addressed this issue so many times that I lost count long ago.
God bless you Terry, as we both praise the Risen Christ (Orthodox Easter/Pascha this year is not for a few weeks, but we hold every Sunday as the weekly feast of the Resurrection, so I am celebrating the same Risen Lord with you!)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-28-2016, 07:15 PM
CatholicCrusader's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,297
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linsinbigler View Post
God bless you Terry, as we both praise the Risen Christ (Orthodox Easter/Pascha this year is not for a few weeks, but we hold every Sunday as the weekly feast of the Resurrection, so I am celebrating the same Risen Lord with you!)
He is risen!
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-15-2016, 05:54 PM
rstrats's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 155
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Perhaps someone new looking in will know of examples.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-29-2016, 08:39 AM
rstrats's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 155
Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

It appears that there are no 6th day of the week crucifixion advocates who frequent this forum, or at least any that think that Matthew 12:40 is using idiomatic language.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Matthew 7:1-5 ElpidioLGagolinan General Discussions 10 07-07-2015 03:13 PM
Matthew 24:45-51 Moses Bible Chat 0 07-19-2011 06:19 AM
Matthew 3:11 EvanT Bible Chat 9 06-18-2011 11:04 AM
Matthew 7:1-5 Moses Bible Chat 0 10-22-2010 08:43 AM
Matthew 18:34-35 EphesiansWarrior General Discussions 4 02-03-2009 06:28 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:10 PM.


true2ourselves
 
 
 

Flashcoms

You need to upgrade your Flash Player.

Version 8 or higher is required.

download from http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29