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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Bible Chat  > Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

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  #21  
Old 02-20-2017, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

iamdan,
re: "...it seems hard to believe there will be any way to find something other than we are posting..."

So what do you suppose those 6th day of the week crucifixon/first day of the week resurrection advocates - who say that Matthew 12:40 is employing common idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial usage to explain the missing night time of the Messiah's prophecy - are using to support their assertion?

Last edited by rstrats : 02-20-2017 at 12:55 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-20-2017, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

I dont say anything. I still dont, forgive my ignorance, understand why it matters..
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  #23  
Old 02-20-2017, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
Matthew 12:40 quotes the Messiah saying that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights. A majority of folks believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week. This period of time, however, would only allow for 2 night times. To account for this discrepancy, it is frequently suggested that the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language of the time.

From what I hear you saying, you believe Jesus was not telling the truth when he said.

Mat 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Was Jesus speaking of Himself, or someone else which could be believed to be ..."The Son of Man"?

Christians don't just arbitrarily believe Jesus was Crucified on the 6th. day of the week, but because
Scripture clearly tells us the day when Jesus was Crucified, it is called..."The Day of Preparation" being the 6th day of the week, the day before the "SABBATH"


Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, (BECAUSE IT WAS THE PREPARATION, THAT IS), (THE DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH).
Mar 15:43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

Luk 23:52
This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
Luk 23:53
And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54
(AND THAT DAY WAS THE PREPARATION), (AND THE SABBATH DREW ON).

Joh 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Joh 19:31
(THE JEWS THEREFORE, BECAUSE IT WAS THE PREPARATION, THAT THE BODIES SHOULD NOT REMAIN UPON THE CROSS ON THE SABBATH DAY, (FOR THAT SABBATH DAY WAS A HIGH DAY), BESOUGHT PILATE THAT THEIR LEGS MIGHT BE BROKEN, AND THAT THEY MIGHT BE TAKEN AWAY).
Joh 19:32
Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
Joh 19:33
(BUT WHEN THEY CAME TO JESUS, AND SAW THAT HE WAS DEAD ALREADY, THEY BRAKE NOT HIS LEGS):

Being the ending of the 6th. day this would include what we would call the night before, because the days for the Jews was reckoned at sundown.

Therefore the 6th day already included 1 night and 1 day time period,

Next, at sundown a short time after Jesus was laid in the tomb, the 7th. day of the week began, this also included 1 night and 1 day time period.

Sunday began on the 1st day of the week for the Jews at sundown and lastly included 1 night and 1 day time period because that is when Jesus was Resurrected.

Mat 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, (AS IT BEGAN TO DAWN TOWARD THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.


Mar_16:2
(AND VERY EARLY IN THE MORNING THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK), they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mar_16:9
(NOW WHEN JESUS WAS RISEN EARLY THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK), he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Luk_24:1
(NOW UPON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, VERY EARLY IN THE MORNING), they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2
And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luk 24:3
And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

Joh_20:1
(THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK CAME MARY MAGDALENE EARLY WHEN IT WAS YET DARK), unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Joh_20:19
(THEN THE SAME DAY AT EVENING, BEING THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK), when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

As you can see, both the 6th day "The Day of Preparation" and the 1st Day of the week are clearly mentioned in the Bible.
Therefore you have just been shown how the days were / are reckoned in the Bible, now if you want to argue your point any further, you will be arguing against Scripture itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb) knows of any writing which shows a phrase from the first century or before which states a specific number of daytimes and/or a specific number of night times when the actual period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a portion of each one of the specific number of daytimes and at least a portion of each one of the specific number of night times?
As I have just provided for the reckoning of days according to the Jewish beliefs in the Bible, no other writings should be needed for any Christian to believe Jesus was Crucified on a Friday, and was Resurrected on the following Sunday 3 days and nights later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
And remember, the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that. However, for those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language I should think that one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used in order to legitimately say that it was common. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. I
It would appear as though you, are the only one concerned with some Idiom in the Jewish language.
Believers in Christ, take the Bible to be the inspired Word of God and the truth to mankind because God cannot lie.

You have been shown the truth, you should now therefore be free.

JIM
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  #24  
Old 02-21-2017, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
it is frequently suggested that the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language of the time.
Where and by whom is it frequently suggested?


Mat 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights (IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH)

Within the verse in question, the only portion of it which could be construed as an idiom is (IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH)

But your question has not been concerned with that Phrase, you are more concerned with the time frame which Jesus was talking about.

Jesus spoke about an event which Jews would be able to relate to, one which they would know, an event which was recorded in the Old Testament

Jonah 1:17
Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

The Jews and now Christians as well accept this recounting of what happened to Jonah as True.
Therefore what Jesus said about Himself being (IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH) for three days and three nights should also be understood and believed as True.

For Jesus to have said (Three Days and Three Nights) is not an idiom, nor is it Using Common Idiomatic Language.

Very simply, if it can be understood, and accepted, that what happened to Jonah was a specific length of time,

Then why, is the specific length of time Jesus was in the tomb questioned, as though it did not happen as recorded.?

JIM
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  #25  
Old 06-08-2017, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Apparently there are no 6th day of the week crucifixion advocates who try to explain the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language.
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  #26  
Old 06-08-2017, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
Apparently there are no 6th day of the week crucifixion advocates who try to explain the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language.
.

You know it's been 1 1/2 yrs you have been beating on this dead horse of yours,, it's time we just let it have a peaceful burial don't you think.

You won't listen to reason anyway so why continue on a subject your not interested in solving.

DEAL???

JIM
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  #27  
Old 06-09-2017, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
.

You know it's been 1 1/2 yrs you have been beating on this dead horse of yours,, it's time we just let it have a peaceful burial don't you think.

You won't listen to reason anyway so why continue on a subject your not interested in solving.

DEAL???

JIM
Amen to that.
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  #28  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

lookinforacity,
re: "You know it's been 1 1/2 yrs you have been beating on this dead horse of yours..."

Actually, it's been over 10 years.



re: "You won't listen to reason..."

For the purpose of this topic no reasoning is necessary.
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  #29  
Old 09-28-2017, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Lookinforacity,
re: "Jesus to have said (Three Days and Three Nights) is not an idiom, nor is it Using Common Idiomatic Language. Very simply, if it can be understood, and accepted, that what happened to Jonah was a specific length of time, Then why, is the specific length of time Jesus was in the tomb questioned, as though it did not happen as recorded.?"

Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, you probably won't know of examples. But perhaps someone new looking may.
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  #30  
Old 10-30-2017, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Is Matthew Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

This may clarify the OP a bit:


1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".



2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.



3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.



4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.



5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.



6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.



7. For the purpose of this topic, I am merely asking for some of the examples being used to support an assertion of commonality.
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