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True2Ourselves Forums   > Ministers > Becoming a minister  > holy tradition

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  #1  
Old 02-09-2009, 05:11 PM
alphaomega3160's Avatar
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Default holy tradition

i must be missing something ; and i am sure it is quite simple but i will give my thought and wait for a responce
in the early church; after the apostles had died off the desicion was made to bring about holy tradition ; this was done so that the words of the apostles would remain true ( at this time there is no cannonized bible )
this was done thru apostalic secession ; once again ; for the purpose of keeping the words of the apostles true
an example ; paul ----> poly carp ; poly carp dicipled by paul would know and keep pauls words true ; before his death; poly carp would lay hands on others ; again to keep/ ensure that the words of the apostles are kept true
this is holy tradition ;
my question is ; once bibles are cannonized ;
; once bibles are printed for the masses
what is the need of holy tradition ?
; for are not the words of the apostles recorded for all to read?
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2009, 06:24 PM
Olsen's Avatar
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Default Re: holy tradition

I recall a discussion with Watchman on this general topic which prompts me to repeat my point of view. In law, we often say that a document is not "self authenicating" which means there must be some authority beyond the four corners of the text that imports validity to the document.

There are very few people who are ever willing to ask themselves this question: Would it not be true that the authority who decided what makes up the "canon" of inspired scripture and what does not-has ultimate authority to validate not only the resulting text that survives such a selective process but also the corresponding authority to guide the faithful regarding not only the authenication but intrepretation and translation thereof. That authority, of course, is the Church.

The Bible whether Old Testament or New Testament was drawn from oral tradition. Can you imagine St. Paul exhorting his listeners to ignore every sermon he gave unless and until it was reduced to writing. The Christian and apostolic tradition came before a single line of new testatment scripture was written. It was from that pool that Holy Scripture was drawn and it was from that same pool that the Holy Spirit guided the Church to declare the Canon. It must be disconcerting in the extreme to realize as any seriuos scholar must that not a single line of either Old Testament or New Testament scripture survives in original form. There is no segment of Christianity that teaches that translators or copyists were or are inspired but only the original authors. The only documents we now read, therefore, are the uninspired texts of translators and copyists and, of course, history is replete with examples of errors in translations and copying. What then keeps scripture reliable? The answer is, once again, the teaching authority of the same Church that authenicated scripture to begin with-relying upon as the Church always has, the Christian and apostolic tradition from which holy writ was drawn.

It does very little good , therefore, for people to rest their entire case on dogma or doctrine tethered exclusively to scripture. The numerous differences in intrepretation-often with respect to the very same text and often within the same confession of faith underscore the problem. The Baptist, for example, will disagree among themselves regarding the ordination of women and each relys entirely on scripture to support their opposite points of view.

My views in no way are meant to suggest that scripture is without value. Quite the contrary - it is enormously valuable. It represents an enbodiment of the finest religious tradition ever known i.e. the Judiac Christian tradition culminating in Christ and continuing in His Church (which can often be defined as Christ extended into time). My only point is that the written text of any given scriptural translation must always be viewed within the context of the tradition from which it was derived. To divorce ourselves from tradition is to invite chaos and ulitmately error in discerning the spiritual truth that lies within the words.
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  #3  
Old 02-11-2009, 04:57 PM
alphaomega3160's Avatar
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Default Re: holy tradition

TY; for your responce
* it must be that the difference is WHAT IS HOLY TRADITION ?
i thought it was
* passing on the words of the apostles
* by way of apostalic suceesion
* in order to ensure their truthfulness
now; 2 questions
what do you call what i have said ?
and what is holy tradion?
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: holy tradition

I think that the answerer to what is Holy tradition might only really be determined by denominational doctrine. I believe for many the sacramental rights are a big part of their tradition. the practice of those things commanded in the Bible that we should do but are more than just part of the readings. Baptism and the celebration of the breaking of bread being two of the most important. As the church became corrupted some traditions were made more important and others created to give those in charge much power and authority. Some were created to fight gnostic belief that was becoming problematic such as the saying of the creeds ever evolving to combat the heresy of the times.

Mr Olsen Let me thank you and all who have done so much to put this site together. I find it refreshing and of great value. In responce to what you stated earlier i think I might disagree with you a bit. I do not know of any author who is still alive who would allow his writing to be be corrupted. I believe the author of the Bible is still alive and would not allow his work to be destroyed. The Father gave his only son to save us so then why would he allow the one gift used by the church to be corrupted in such a way as to destroy why Jesus came. The argument about interpretation is of value but when I think about it I do not see that as changing the book but rather just men not getting it right. with all the translations out their the problems are still the same in every language. The book has not changed. It is just that men have not been given the revelation they need to interpret the meaning as God would have us do it. God is still alive and still the author and it is my belief the bible is authoritative not the whims of an ecclesiastical group of the moment.

I will keep reading and learning because I know I am not perfect yet and have boat loads to learn and some corrections to be made. This is truly a place to go beyond our sheltered practice and test what we believe to be true. Thank you again bob
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