[cookie38]

Did God call it a curse or did he say that he will visit the iniquity of the fathers upon the children? Does this means that God is going to cause our children to do the same sinful things we done? I no it can't because the Bible say [James 1:13] let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
or what I believe God revealed to me it means that God would see and deal with our sins that our children will also commit. Where in the Bible does it call it a generational curse? Please read Ezekiel 18: 1-32 it will show you what God say about this saying that our children will be punished because of our sins.

Ezk. 18-2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concernig the land of Israel, saying, the fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
(3) As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion anymore to use this proverb in Israel.
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: The soul that sinneth it shall die.

read verses (5)(6)(7)(8)and (9) it tells about a good and just man, and all the good he have done. he is just man, he shall surely live saith the Lord God.

verse (10) say if he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood,.......[verses (10)(11)(12) is all about his bad son and all the bad he has done.
(13) ask shall he then live? he shall not live: he have done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood is on his own hands.

[verse 14] say if he has a son and see all his fathers sins and considerth and do no such things, but do all God commanded......says in verses (15)(16)(17) at the ebd of verse (17) it say, He shall not die for the iniquity of his father, ha shall surely live.

and as you read on you will see in verses (19) and (20) Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? when the son has done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statues, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father: The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. and so on.............. read the rest you will get I pray.

We hear so many things said and it is said so much that we start believing that it is in "The Bible" that is why we need to study to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. II Tim. 2:15

Yes there were curses but it was for the disobediance of the law to the man who disobeys. Duet.11:26--28 and 27:12--26 and all of chadpter 28 blessings and curses.

Finally; in Galatians 3:7--14 know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham,
(8) And the scriptures forseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, in thee shall all nations be blessed.
(9) So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
(10) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse of the law: for it is written, cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
(11) no man is justified by the law....

(13) CHRIST HATH REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, BEING MADE A CURSE FOR US: FOR IT IS WRITTEN, CURSETH IS EVERY MAN THAT HANGETH ON A TREE:
(14) That the blessings of Abraham might come on the gantiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through FAITH.

There is power in the tongue we either going to speak life or death. James 3 I am the redeemed of the Lord and there is no curse in or on my life nor my seed nor my seed's seed. we are Blessed by the most high God in Jesus Christ. and no one can curse what God has blessed and no one can bless what God has cursed.
May God Bless all that read this.

[Mark]

Hello Cookie - interesting post.

I always associated the idea of "generational curses" with cause & effect. In other words, I don't think God comes down and curses children ... I think it's more along the lines of people cursing themselves through their own sinful actions and their children being adversely affected in the process.

If parents use drugs, for example, this 'sin' will effect their children i.e. cause & effect - not God coming down and cursing the kids.

[cookie38]

Yes Mark; I trully agree with what you said. and i like to add, that we leave satan out of so many thing that goes on in this world that we don't see that it is he who introduce us to the thought of what our parents did. for exmp. my mother used to party so much she was never home yet on the other hand I hate clubs and never did like them. my mom was there so much they had her painted on the wall, just kidden, but none of my sisters or my brother really got into drinking and partying. but some of the things i have done I will not blame on my parents. first of because they were my choices and second; they naver did half the things I did. Satan is real and he will build a stronghold in our minds and have us to blame every one but him.

[irondumpty]

God visit’s the iniquity of the fathers unto the children; If these children are wicked. If you read the entire chapter of Ezekiel 18 you will see this.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel18

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
" 'The fathers eat sour grapes,
and the children's teeth are set on edge'?
3 "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. 4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
5 "Suppose there is a righteous man
who does what is just and right.
6 He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of the house of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor's wife
or lie with a woman during her period.
7 He does not oppress anyone,
but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
8 He does not lend at usury
or take excessive interest.
He withholds his hand from doing wrong
and judges fairly between man and man.
9 He follows my decrees
and faithfully keeps my laws.
That man is righteous;
he will surely live,
declares the Sovereign LORD.
10 "Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things 11 (though the father has done none of them):
"He eats at the mountain shrines.
He defiles his neighbor's wife.
12 He oppresses the poor and needy.
He commits robbery.
He does not return what he took in pledge.
He looks to the idols.
He does detestable things.
13 He lends at usury and takes excessive interest.
Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head.
14 "But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:
15 "He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of the house of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor's wife.
16 He does not oppress anyone
or require a pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
17 He withholds his hand from sin
and takes no usury or excessive interest.
He keeps my laws and follows my decrees.
He will not die for his father's sin; he will surely live. 18 But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.
19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear, O house of Israel: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. 27 But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life. 28 Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Are my ways unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
30 "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

[Amadeus]

I see the "ways of man" in this. We follow the ways of our parents or guardians because usually they are our primary examples. There is no curse on the son because of his natural father's sin. Unfortunately, the father taught the son some bad habits which led the son also to commit the same sins.

This is why people continue to sin after receiving God's Spirit. The Spirit is in us to teach us and to clean us up. The sin will be gone immediately, but our old habits (learned from our natural parents, etc.) still exist in us. As long as they do and we follow them at all we will sin again, and again, and again, etc.

Receiving the Holy Ghost does not in itself remove the old ways which still lead us to sin. Part of what needs to be "cleaned up" are our old habits, our old ways, the ways of the "old man"

The following verses in Leviticus speak of to this problem:

"If they shall confess their iniquity [ways], and the iniquity [ways] of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;

And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:

Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land." Lev 26:40-41

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isa 55:8-9

[rootednchrist]

Hello all and Praise the Lord.

My friends & family in Christ.

We must be careful when you are trying to apply O.T. interpretations in your life when you are under Grace in the NT.

Generational curses for a Christian DO NOT EXHIST. Scripture says everything that was against you Christ has nailed them to the Cross. God has saved you and called you to a blessing that is eternal.

A Christian can't be blessed & cursed at the same time. =Double mindedness or a Unstable Divine Plan = Not of God and Not in Scripture. Thats why its wrong for people to try to Apply Malichi Chapt3:16 to a Christian

Replacement Theology is Heretical my friends so please becareful with bibical interpretation. Israel is Israel and the Church is the Church.
The Church can never be under anything written exclusively to Israel. Read 2Corth3:9-18

Remeber this Golden Rule...If the APostles (especially Paul) did not teach it to any of the Churches in Scripture, then what you are trying to be taught by another is False and not of the Apostle's Doctrine.

Now I do agree with my brother who said a CHristian can have Bad Habits and she or he need still need to renew his mind to over come habits, or false teaching because of man made tradition or from a false religion

Like SMOKING.... We know smoking can lead to your death by cancer of the Lungs. Some people have smoked for 20yrs got saved, and still struggle with that bad habit.

Like being saved from Hinduism where the chanting was part of the ritual to get them to a mental state. Because I had to tell some Christians who were former practioners of a religion, chanting Jesus's name over and over and over is a pagan practice which Christ does not want a child of God to pray in that manor. But because these babes did not know they did that practice habitually when they got saved.

This is one of the reasons why Paul wrote to present our bodies as living sacrifices and by the RENEWING of the MIND Rom12

Basically he is saying to Submit your body& will to that of the Holy Spirit, because in our submission to the will of the Holy Spirit our mind is renewed

Because its the Holy Spirit who illuminates the mind to written Scripture.
" " " " " " Leads & Guides us into all Truth

Generational curse christian doctrine was developed by TV Evangelist. The Apostles did not Teach Mess like that because it has nothing to do with the New Covenant.

Now,..will a man sin find him out...YES but that does not mean he sin is passed to his son.

But because a Father is a Murderor that does not mean the Son is going to be one too. Or because the Mother grew up in the Projects does not mean her daughter will not be Sucessful.

Remember the story Jesus and Blind man.

The Disciples said...LORD..who has Sinned...This Man or His Parents = Generational Curse Way of Thinking.

Jesus Said....NEITHER His Parents or This Man has sinned, but this is done to the Glory of God. and Christ healed the blindness of that man.

God does not punish us for the sins of our fathers unless we do what our fathers did.

Very often that which our fathers and their fathers did, becomes something of a 'thing' in the family. A parent might be an alcoholic and the child becomes and alcoholic, or skips a generation and then there is another who becomes an alcoholic.

But...if you deal with the issues that would inherantly come your way due to familiar spirits, then your children would probably find it easier to be overcomers in that area.

David committed adultery...and a string of sexual offenses followed in his family.

Abraham lied about sarah being his sister, and i believe that isaac did the same.

These things CAN be overcome and should be overcome. If we are victorious over a certain thing, then the children will find it easier to be victorious. Perhaps they dont follow their parents example...or perhaps the familiar spirits which like to hang around in families have been dealt with.

I would say that having to deal with the issues of the flesh, which seem to pass themselves down bloodlines is not necessarily a curse. But its rather familiar spirits that like to stay around the same families.

Heneni

Like Mark said....but I'm putting it in question form.
If we are not punished for or affected by our parents actions then why are children born addicted to crack or any other drug, and therefore carry the affects of that their entire lives?
Why, if our parents are additcs then do we have a propensity to be one as well?
Why if someone is molested, do they do the same thing to someone else? (not in all cases, but it happens)

All of this happens to "saved" people.

If my momma doesn't pay her bills, I get put out right with her. Therefore in all of these scenarios, the sins of my father/mother are visited upon me and I had nothing to do with what they did.

Again, these are questions.

Mark, I find that if you give people flat out questions, they can't preach a sermon and that doesn't even answer the question, but goes all around it.

Example of generational curse. The first scripture(2 Samuel 12:1-15 is the cause)
Sorry it's long...it's the scriptures, not my commentary.
After David slept with Bathsheba and killed Uriah...
2 Samuel 12:1-15
1And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.

2The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:

3But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.

4And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.

5And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:

6And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.

7And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

8And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

9Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

10Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

11Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

12For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

13And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

14Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

15And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.


2 Samuel 13:1-20 is the effect. The generational curse.
1And it came to pass after this, that Absalom the son of David had a fair sister, whose name was Tamar; and Amnon the son of David loved her.

2And Amnon was so vexed, that he fell sick for his sister Tamar; for she was a virgin; and Amnon thought it hard for him to do anything to her.

3But Amnon had a friend, whose name was Jonadab, the son of Shimeah David's brother: and Jonadab was a very subtil man.

4And he said unto him, Why art thou, being the king's son, lean from day to day? wilt thou not tell me? And Amnon said unto him, I love Tamar, my brother Absalom's sister.

5And Jonadab said unto him, Lay thee down on thy bed, and make thyself sick: and when thy father cometh to see thee, say unto him, I pray thee, let my sister Tamar come, and give me meat, and dress the meat in my sight, that I may see it, and eat it at her hand.

6So Amnon lay down, and made himself sick: and when the king was come to see him, Amnon said unto the king, I pray thee, let Tamar my sister come, and make me a couple of cakes in my sight, that I may eat at her hand.

7Then David sent home to Tamar, saying, Go now to thy brother Amnon's house, and dress him meat.

8So Tamar went to her brother Amnon's house; and he was laid down. And she took flour, and kneaded it, and made cakes in his sight, and did bake the cakes.

9And she took a pan, and poured them out before him; but he refused to eat. And Amnon said, Have out all men from me. And they went out every man from him.

10And Amnon said unto Tamar, Bring the meat into the chamber, that I may eat of thine hand. And Tamar took the cakes which she had made, and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother.

11And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister.

12And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly.

13And I, whither shall I cause my shame to go? and as for thee, thou shalt be as one of the fools in Israel. Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee.

14Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her.

15Then Amnon hated her exceedingly; so that the hatred wherewith he hated her was greater than the love wherewith he had loved her. And Amnon said unto her, Arise, be gone.

16And she said unto him, There is no cause: this evil in sending me away is greater than the other that thou didst unto me. But he would not hearken unto her.

17Then he called his servant that ministered unto him, and said, Put now this woman out from me, and bolt the door after her.

18And she had a garment of divers colours upon her: for with such robes were the king's daughters that were virgins apparelled. Then his servant brought her out, and bolted the door after her.

19And Tamar put ashes on her head, and rent her garment of divers colours that was on her, and laid her hand on her head, and went on crying.

20And Absalom her brother said unto her, Hath Amnon thy brother been with thee? but hold now thy peace, my sister: he is thy brother; regard not this thing. So Tamar remained desolate in her brother Absalom's house.

21But when king David heard of all these things, he was very wroth.

22And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad: for Absalom hated Amnon, because he had forced his sister Tamar.

23And it came to pass after two full years, that Absalom had sheepshearers in Baalhazor, which is beside Ephraim: and Absalom invited all the king's sons.

24And Absalom came to the king, and said, Behold now, thy servant hath sheepshearers; let the king, I beseech thee, and his servants go with thy servant.

25And the king said to Absalom, Nay, my son, let us not all now go, lest we be chargeable unto thee. And he pressed him: howbeit he would not go, but blessed him.

26Then said Absalom, If not, I pray thee, let my brother Amnon go with us. And the king said unto him, Why should he go with thee?

27But Absalom pressed him, that he let Amnon and all the king's sons go with him.

28Now Absalom had commanded his servants, saying, Mark ye now when Amnon's heart is merry with wine, and when I say unto you, Smite Amnon; then kill him, fear not: have not I commanded you? be courageous, and be valiant.

29And the servants of Absalom did unto Amnon as Absalom had commanded. Then all the king's sons arose, and every man gat him up upon his mule, and fled.

30And it came to pass, while they were in the way, that tidings came to David, saying, Absalom hath slain all the king's sons, and there is not one of them left.

31Then the king arose, and tare his garments, and lay on the earth; and all his servants stood by with their clothes rent.

32And Jonadab, the son of Shimeah David's brother, answered and said, Let not my lord suppose that they have slain all the young men the king's sons; for Amnon only is dead: for by the appointment of Absalom this hath been determined from the day that he forced his sister Tamar.

33Now therefore let not my lord the king take the thing to his heart, to think that all the king's sons are dead: for Amnon only is dead.

34But Absalom fled. And the young man that kept the watch lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came much people by the way of the hill side behind him.

35And Jonadab said unto the king, Behold, the king's sons come: as thy servant said, so it is.

36And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of speaking, that, behold, the king's sons came, and lifted up their voice and wept: and the king also and all his servants wept very sore.

37But Absalom fled, and went to Talmai, the son of Ammihud, king of Geshur. And David mourned for his son every day.

38So Absalom fled, and went to Geshur, and was there three years.

39And the soul of king David longed to go forth unto Absalom: for he was comforted concerning Amnon, seeing he was dead.

Correlation:
David took another man's wife and forced her. How did he force her? Just by being king, she really had no other choice even if she didn't want to. Because of this, Bathsheba of course became pregnant and in those days would have been stoned if it came out that since her husband was at war at the time that she cheated on him so David sent for Uriah to try to get him to lay with his wife, but since Uriah was such a patriot, he wouldn't go to the luxury of home while his compatriots were off at war so David had to kill him so that he would not bring charge against her. All David wanted to do was sleep with her, had Uriah slept with her, everything would have been fine and no one would have been accountable for their actions.

Amnon lusted so hard after his sister that he forced her to sleep with him, even after she pleaded to him to ask the king (David) if they could marry. And after he got what he wanted he, hated her so much that he sent her away from him. He wasn't interested in marrying her, especially his own sister. This enraged her brother Absalom probably not only because this was his sister, but because Amnon took away her suitability and brought shame on his and his sister's head. Because of that, and the fact that his father knew, but did nothing, he killed Amnon.

Although it doesn't come back on you the exact way you give it out, you get it back twofold. What David did to another family happened all in his own house.

Generational curse, both David and his children were affected by his sin with Bathsheba.
Generational curse doesn't so much mean that if I'm stupid then my children will be stupid without a doubt, it means that in some instances, you will see your sin in your children because a lot of times we don't see our issues until we're looking at them in someone else. That's why people say that if you do a certain thing around a child that they will do it too.

That's just one instance that I could think of right off hand because I heard a lesson on this situation. The person wasn't teaching generational curse, but that's what I got out of it.

[cookie38]

I never said that the children will not suffer for some things their parents did, I said it is not a curse and there is no where in the bible that say it is. what you are saying is just common sence. who wouldn't have pain of something ther parents did wrong. but it is not because of what they do we have the right to blame them for our actions-- the choices we make they are all our own. and if we let the devil entice us to do something they did, as the scripture say your sins are on your own hands. and what happen to David was a openly spoken curse that God put on his family. and everyone lies some do it before they are two years old when there was no one to teach them. we speak things into our lives and it becomes truth-- we eiter going to speak life or death. God have curse many people in the Bible and it was times when he would not even allow them to be cursed. and for the olld testament--- it was giving for an example for us -- why show an example of something if you are not expected to follow it and learn from. how many times have you said a prayer to God and asked him to do or give you somrthing he gave the children of Israel-- have you ever prayed Psalms 23--or the Lord's prayer or quoted oldtestament scripture when you are praying or tring to minister to someone. yes their are some things God did in oldtestament time just to or for Israel. so lets not be in partiality about what God is tell us about the old testament and what to do. you really need not to say that we only do what Paul say--- that is the most craziest thing I have ever in my christian walk heard.